Episode 44: Mid-Life Reinvention for Women: Becoming the Visionary of Your Life with Coach & Educator Kelley Biskupiak

Episode Description:

In this honest and deeply relatable episode, we sit down with Kelley Biskupiak — a coach, educator, speaker, and co-founder of Prepare to Launch U — to talk about the moment so many women hit in mid-life.

Kelley has spent over 15 years helping women navigate career pivots, re-entry, and reinvention after seasons of caregiving, burnout, or living by everyone else’s expectations. Her work centers on helping women reclaim clarity, confidence, and the role of visionary in their own lives — especially after years of doing “all the right things.”

Together, we explore why mid-life often becomes a turning point. You’ve built the life. You’ve checked the boxes. You have the marriage, the kids, the career, the responsibilities — and yet there’s a quiet question that surfaces: Is this it?

This conversation reframes mid-life not as a crisis, but as an invitation — to redefine ambition, reconnect with yourself, and make intentional choices that honor both your family and who you are becoming.

Episode Highlights: 

• Why mid-life becomes a natural point of reckoning for women
• The pressure of “doing everything right” — and why it still feels incomplete
• How people-pleasing and perfection quietly disconnect women from themselves
• What it means to become the visionary of your own life again
• Work-life synergy versus work-life balance
• How to rethink career pivots and re-entry in your 30s, 40s, and beyond
• Why ambition and motherhood can coexist
• Practical tools to clarify values, priorities, and next steps
• How to ask for support without guilt
• What bravery actually looks like in mid-life
• Reclaiming your identity and modeling that for your children

💗 Pink Spotlight

“Each week, we highlight a moment, product, or practice that’s bringing us joy:”

Kelley: So grateful to have all her kids back home from school, under one roof again. There’s nothing like that feeling of full-house energy after months apart.

T: Her two sisters are her Pink Spotlight. They’re her real sounding board, her safe place for advice, and the people who always bring her back to center.

Christina: Daytime date-night hack with Raja. Instead of battling winter nights or coordinating late babysitters, they steal 90 minutes for happy hour while childcare already exists. It’s easier, feels more fun, and still gets everyone home in time for bedtime.

🌸 Connect with Kelley

You can find Kelley Biskupiak online as a coach, educator, and co-founder of Prepare to Launch U. She mentioned her signature courses, coaching programs for women navigating mid-life career reinvention, and opportunities to work with her 1:1.

Where to connect:

• BeYouBravely (course + coaching programs)
• Prepare to Launch U (career re-entry courses for mid-life women)
• Kelley’s 1:1 coaching (identity clarity, career pivots, and personal vision work)

To learn more about working with Kelley or joining one of her programs, visit the links above or connect with her directly through her coaching platforms.

Join the Conversation

📌 Follow us on Instagram: @prettyinpinkagain@christinatarabishy@kristinabontempo
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Transcript

0:00

I'm Christina, and I'm t and this is the pretty and Pink again podcast where motherhood meets rediscovery. Today we are diving into something every woman in midlife feels, but rarely says out loud, how do I stay me in the middle of work, kids relationships, aging parents, and the chaos of everyday life. We wouldn't think of a more perfect guest to unpack this than Kelly Bicu, coach, educator, speaker and co-founder of Prepare to launch You for 15 years, Kelly has helped women find clarity and chaos and reclaim the role of visionaries in their own lives. She's lived it herself, teacher, coach, career, business owner, and mom. And she has helped thousands of women reinvent and relaunch with courage. This conversation is real, honest, empowering, and deeply relatable for any women trying to juggle everything without losing herself. Welcome, Kelly. Hey, happy to be here. We're so happy to have you here. We're really excited about this episode. Yeah. So honored to have you here. I was, I just wanna say this before we get started. I absolutely love what the two of you are doing. Working so intimately with women with their vulnerabilities and what is happening for them in their lives for the last 15 years, there is a lot of silence and carrying the weight of all of it by themselves. And there is so much depression, anxiety, worries that I'm not enoughs. And, just the two of you women who are driven and, living lives, being really honest about those struggles that you have, you're ultimately giving permission for other women to not feel so alone. And that's huge. It's a really big deal. And I know it so intimately because I'm hearing those stories inside and in, in my, private practice and then even in the courses I teach. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for saying that. I know. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for recognizing it because this year has. I think been, we've had such tremendous growth personally and professionally together, and I think that this podcast has been truly the reason for that. Yeah. It's allowed us to share what's going on. It keeps us on track in our own personal growth, recognizing what's happening. The conversations that we're having, it holds us accountable for certain things. And we've found that talking about a lot of these things and opening up the conversation is so therapeutic on so many levels, and to then connect with other women who are going through the same thing. I think it's just, it really has, it's made this podcast have so much more of a purpose than we could have imagined. Yeah. So I appreciate you saying that. And we really appreciate you being here. We know you're a busy mommy of four. Yes. Yeah. And we just, we want our listeners to hear from you because we talk a lot about midlife and what that means. And how, and this podcast particularly, we talk a lot about rediscovery and how you're constantly rediscovering yourself and how women get stuck in this midlife. And we really want you to unpack that and what that means for women. Yeah. I think it's really important to just even understand what is midlife. What is happening in midlife. So essentially, and I love, this was explained to me years ago in one of my coaching trainings, and I was like, oh my gosh. Every, again, every woman needs to hear this. So ultimately what is happening, all of these behaviors, these ways of being that you have done, that have actually created success in your life, you get to this middle place and they stop serving you. And so it's an angsty place because you have to start to let go of some of those things. So for example, things like perfectionism being really good, and driven there is a shelf life on being a perfectionist. You can only do it for so long until it stops serving you and it starts running you. And so it's, maybe you are a healthy achiever and then you morphed into a perfectionist and the next thing you know, you are just exhausted. You're depleted and you feel like you're not enough. You're very much in that black and white thinking of if I, we don't do it this way, then it's not gonna be done correctly. And letting go of that way of thinking is actually a really important step because it's gonna fuel you to tackle the next part of your life and prepare you for the next part of your journey. And feeling uncomfortable, feeling that like yucky feeling in midlife is actually a good thing because it means you're growing. It's you speaking to yourself and saying, something's wrong here and we need to do something about it. And when you do the something about it, it actually propels you forward. And so understanding that it shouldn't be a scary thing. That midlife shouldn't be a scary thing. It can conjure up some big decisions, big life decisions. It might be, I'm getting a divorce, it might be I am, going back to work and that's gonna upset the apple cart of, what I, currently am to everyone in my life. It might be that I am, putting some serious boundaries up in relationships in my life that I've let you know, really overstep the bounds and run me for years. And so you. There is worry in all of that, but there's also beauty in all of it. Because it ultimately makes you a better version of you and a more fulfilled version of you. So why do you think that this happens? Is it really age related, or is it just where you are in terms of motherhood and a career pivot and everything coming to a head? Because I think that can happen to people at different points. Mm-hmm. Of their life. But it feels from what I've seen right now, everyone can be in a different stage of motherhood or womanhood and everybody's having these things going on at the same time. Whether your kids are 12, whether your kids are just born. It's just, it seems like if you're in this sort of age range, everyone has a lot of their own stuff happening. Yes, absolutely. So why is that happening? Why is it right now? Yeah. I think there's, if we like delve into the psychology of what's happening to us as humans, there is a developmental stage that is, serving that up for you. So it's happening in real time. I think biologically, I think chemically, hormonally, as women were experiencing a lot we talked we talked offline about, having been in like, the throes of infertility and having all of these hormones pumped into your body. It's even just the experience of, carrying a child and, there's postpartum depression, there's all of these, things that are happening to the chemistry of who we are in this middle life space that I think sometimes it's just like we should just all wake up and be happy. The, you got the baby or got the job, or you have the marriage and it's you should feel good. So that, so really just paying attention to the fact that biologically you are changing in this middle life, and some of that is feeding the fire, right? Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. You are okay in feeling the way that you are feeling because there's some of this you have zero control over. Okay. So knowing that some women experience it at different phases and places along the spectrum of midlife. What I have found, there's something that starts to happen around 35. Okay? This is totally based on Kelly Babiak, like just working with thousands of women, not from, so your private practice? Yes, my private practice and not any like research that someone has shown me, but what I have found around 35, there tends to be this, what I call like the whisper, the midlife whisper. Yeah. Wait a second. We like hit all these things and this doesn't feel. The way I thought it was gonna feel. I feel overwhelmed and, or I feel exhausted, or I feel like I should like this better than I really like it. I think you spend a lot of your twenties chasing these things, and you chase them. And I think that now there's a, there's careers and everything also included in that. So maybe you're chasing the ring, you're chasing the wedding, you're chasing the baby, you're chasing your career and moving up the ladder. Yeah. And then you get all of those things. Yes. And it's almost there's a real, the the cars, the house, the, you know, vacation, the s all this, all this stuff that you dream up. Maybe. And some of them are probably career related, right? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. All of these things that you reach 35 and you realize you just want silence and peace. You're just like, wow. It's, you have all of the things and now what? Yes. Yeah. So I think this is like a really good distinction to make. I think that what we expect is I should feel happy. Yeah. I should be happy. All of these things are happening. And what I know now in the work that I've done for last 15 years is that people are not chasing happiness. You're actually not chasing happiness. You're chasing a sense of fulfillment. That's really what you're chasing. And fulfillment comes from honoring your values. And I think when you become a parent or you get to midlife or you've been head down, driven in your career, and all of a sudden you pick your head up, there's a shift in your values that happens, and unless you take stock of what new values may have come online that you didn't even realize were important to you. And if you don't take stock of what those things are, then you are ultimately living in this sort of empty voided feeling of, what do I even like now? You know what is important to me now? And so it really comes from not honoring your values, right? Yeah. As a mom, you're so focused on the family values, right? Absolutely. You're like in charge of your husband if you have multiple children. What are our values? What are our values? What do we do? Like we always say what do Bon Tempos do? Yeah. And I've very quickly forgot what I Yeah. What I value. Yeah. We had a guest on our podcast, Courtney Cecil, over the summer. And she talked about values. And I looked at Christine and I was like, I don't even know one value right now. I can't even, I don't even, I haven't even heard the word or used the word in so long. I'm so lost. Yeah. So I had to pull on that and be like, what is a value? Yes, absolutely. So a value is what makes you, you, and it's what makes me, right? It's all the makeup of, the things that are most important to me. It's what matters most to you. And a great little trick you can do if you're struggling with what are my values?'cause it's very common. I want you to know that. To not know. To say to yourself, God, I don't even know. I don't even know what mine are right now. And then you might quietly say that to yourself.'cause you don't wanna say it out loud because you are supposed to be you supposed I set it out now. You said good. She did, but you're supposed to be the one. I think it makes sense what you're saying because you get to this kind of. Point where everything comes to a head where you're like I was told what my values were by my family, right? And now all of a sudden I'm in charge of the family. Yeah. And so what are the values? And maybe you didn't even exercise what that even means. That's a great, absolutely. So back to Absolutely. And then we'll take that even further, then you're thinking about the values and the vision for your family, and then not yourself who gets lost. Not you as in that exactly. But what you envision for them. Yes. But that sometimes isn't exactly what you're even putting into play. Exactly. And I think that if you step back from having to get it all right, because that would be the perfectionist coming online, running the show, telling you, you know what? You gotta get this right. Don't screw them up. They're gonna be in therapy. They're gonna be, they're gonna come back and say, mom, you didn't do this for me. All the pressure. And really what you're teaching them is that they can't be human. So if we are letting the perfectionist run the show, the I have to know I have to be the one that has all the answers. You're teaching them that's what they have to be in the world and they don't. So if you pull back on perfectionism Yep. What do you replace it with? Because I've always thought that perfectionism is a good thing. Yeah. Perfectionism fuels productivity. Yeah. So I always thought perfectionism meant you are type A, you had everything in order, you like things clean and tidy, and you're on time and you're punctual, and you're all these good things. Yeah. And I struggle with all of those things. I am not a perfectionist. I am the antithesis of that. And so if you pull back on perfectionism, what do you replace that with to still achieve your goals and to keep everybody? You got it online, it's achievement. You can be a healthy achiever. You can be someone who deeply values achievement. That I hold a high standard that you know, I am, I am holding this standard up here. And if I don't come up and meet it, then I'm learning. I'm growing. I'm gonna fix that. I'm gonna get better at it next time. But you don't beat yourself up because the perfectionist mindset says to you, you're not enough tea. You are not enough. Like you didn't perform well enough for that, or you didn't, you didn't, keep everything so organized or, you just didn't do it well enough. And so if it's really a mindset shift and it's, it's that simple, it's starting to talk to yourself and say, instead of the frustration, the black and white thinking, that's the perfectionist. It's much more the learner. Oh man, we didn't get that. Even saying it out loud, oh my gosh, like what is happening in this kitchen? That guys like in the morning what could we be doing better so the kitchen doesn't look like this? Just having that conversation and it's teaching not just yourself to think differently about it, rather than oh my gosh, it's so frustrating that, things are messy and they're out of order or whatever. It's, that's life. We're a busy family in the morning. What could we do together to adapting to it? I am like the perfectionist. And I've said this so many times on the podcast and I've lived my life like this and I think it only got worse as time has gone on. But I am like a perfectionist where if I build something up in my head, I want something to go a certain way. And if it doesn't go the way I envisioned it going, it is detrimental to me. Yeah. And it's not something, I don't sit there looking at it like a learning experience. Yeah. It's not, what could I do differently next time? It's, I failed at that. You failed. This is not, so you don't even look at the achievement. No. You didn't look the glass half full. I look everything as the glass half empty if I didn't achieve. Yep. And it, I think it started, it may have started as wanting to be an achiever, but it quickly turned into being a perfectionist. And it's, I've always looked at it because I know what's inside my head as not a good thing. Yeah. Like it's such a weight Yeah. To care so deeply about things that don't matter that much. Yeah. Yeah. And not be able to grow from them. Yeah. So perfectionism actually is born when you make other people's voices and judgment your own your own point. Own. Yes. So it's to avoid judgment, I'm going to get, I am gonna do it. Perfect. You are never going to question the way that I do it to think I'm gonna just do it so well. Mm-hmm. And it's very similar with the pleaser.'cause the pleaser is just a little bit different. The pleaser is like. I don't wanna rock the boat, so I am gonna just love you so much. I'm gonna have no boundaries. I'm gonna just let it all roll so that you love me, but it's all based on the external, it's all based on someone else's view of you. And what I wanna offer you and the audience to think differently about this is if you don't want to let the perfectionist or the pleaser run you, then you should be really clear about who in your life actually gets a vote. So who really gets to weigh in on your life? Who gets to give you the hard truth? My best friend has been around for 30 years. You know what? She can weigh in on it all she wants to, and I seek that from her. Listen, you've given permission for her to give that to you. Yes. You get to decide you, that you always in on your life. You don't have a panel of 10 friends who get to chirp in and out Absolutely. Without your, Without your permission. There's a big difference. Absolutely. And here's the reality. You are trying to control something you can't control. You can't control that. People are gonna judge you. They are gonna judge you. That is going to happen. It's just the nature of humans. Just like you're gonna judge other people. Absolutely. It's an innate thing. Yes. Judgment free zone. I mean that, that word really should be eliminated. It's not true. Not true. True. It's just not, it's not true. There is judgment around us at all times. But if you are gonna be a strong woman in the world who is going to tackle her every day and go after goals that she has for herself, you're gonna get plenty of judgment and you better be really clear around who can hold space for you. Who has the confidence to hold space for you too is also very important in that. Because when you have people who you think are on your team, who you think are your supporters, and they can't be with the confident, strong woman that you are in the world, then you're going to have a fake relationship with them because are they really there for the truth of who you are or are they there? And their own insecurities are coming out. People relationship you around you. And I've said this on the podcast many times, I like this saying you want people around you, not just when the chips are down. Yeah. You want people around you when the chips are up a hundred percent. Sometimes I think it's harder. Yeah. To be around that person. Yes. They always say misery loves company, and so it's hard, but it's better when you have people around you that are also okay with things going well for you. Yes. My business partner always says, she's there's always the friends that show up with the ca the casserole. Yeah. She's there's always people that show up but it's the ones that show up and are your biggest cheerleader. Celebrate you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that is in a really good structure you should have in your life and really do the hard work to determine, and it's one or two people. Yeah's really one or two people, but just accepting that yes is so small. It's hard to swallow is hard to swallow. Yeah. It doesn't mean that you're not friends with these other people. It doesn't mean that you're not connected to them, that you're not social with them. It just means that there's a small little board that if I am making a big decision or I feel like I'm off my game or I did something that feels like, oh, I may have handled that the wrong way. That small little board is who really gets to weigh in the rest of the world as that small. I wanna, I wanna pull on that a little bit from you because I appreciate your opinion and your perspective. I personally am somebody that ha has very close connections. Yep. With everybody in the group. Yeah. I love my friends. Really hard. Yep. I tell them things that are important to me. My friends share things with me. Yep. So I struggle not being not all in. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Or I talk about this with Christina all the time. I'm all in or I'm out. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like if I were to only have one or two, I wouldn't know where I would place the rest. I think a couple of things. I think that there was probably a time and a place where you had the capacity to be that for a lot of people. Yeah. But in this last year, you've started this podcast, you've grown this business. You are a mother that has multiple children and demands. And it's hard to be that at that level that maybe you once had the capacity for. So I think one of the things that's really important is to ask yourself like, what season of life am I in? Do I have the capacity? Because here's the thing, I have the capacity to be that if one of my friends are really in a place where they need me one of my people are really in a place and they need me, I show up. I show up 150%. I give them. What they need. And really oftentimes it's just that safe space to be able to say the things that are hard to say to other people. But I don't have to do it every day. I don't have to do it five times a day. There was a time where I loved being on the phone, it was like Yeah. Solving other people's prompts. Hey, listen, it's how I ultimate or just listening while you fold laundry. Yes. But as you start to have things that you are bringing online for yourself because you're now having this bigger vision for your own life and what you want to do, you may not have the capacity to be that. But it doesn't mean that when they get you, you don't show up with quality. They all of me. Yes. You don't show up with a quality that's important to you. And within integrity to the friendship and the relationship. So I was a wide net. I, I am a wide net. Like it's like a running joke with everyone. They're like, we will go out anywhere. And then all of a sudden Kelly's like in a deep conversation with somebody in the corner. It's just, it's who I am as a person. I know. I think that's you. I think that's me too. And I think that's why, and Kelly and I just did this podcast, the idea, like while our sons were getting haircuts, I was super funny. Yeah, that makes sense. I feel that. But I was saying as soon as she was saying that, I was thinking that's how you are. You connect with people. T does T connects with people on a very deep level. Yeah. And so I can see why. You would have struggles with this. Yeah. But I'm running on empty. Okay. So I,'cause my energy now has to be like truly for myself. Yeah. Which I'm shifting, realizing that not only am I feeding energy to my husband and my children'cause I'm battery pack for them. Like I am just reserving energy for myself. Yeah. Yeah. Just to live my life. Yeah. If you have the superpower of empathy, so you have a deep value around empathy, that's, I have a deep value around empathy that is, that's very important to you. So it it's going to, it's gonna be one of those things where you're like, oh my gosh, I just want I know what I could be doing for this person, but you now have this big life that you're also trying to navigate. And you also have priorities that surpass what you could once be for other people. And so if you have the superpower of empathy of that like ear that you know, could listen to anybody from, like the lady in the supermarket, to the school nurse, you know what all of the, and everything in between, you better be fiercely protective of that. Because you don't want it to spill onto you. Yes. And you don't want to be empty. No. You shouldn't be empty. Because then here's what happens as a result of that, then you can't be, then when you wanna turn on that switch or you want to be that in the world, it is like you, even if you tried, you couldn't. And so you have to have boundaries. Boundaries are extremely important. I wish they taught this in school. I wish they taught this, in college, when we were in college. I just really feel that there isn't a understanding of what boundaries really are and how they actually keep you in healthy relationship with the people around you. And and if you can look at creating boundaries in your life as not a rejection of that person, because I think that's probably what you say to yourself. Oh my gosh, if I'm not there enough for them, or if I'm not giving enough of them, I'm rejecting them in some way. That's what, that's exactly right. Yeah. So if you can then create a healthy boundary and look at it in your own mind, so reframe it in your own mind as this is actually just a boundary and this keeps us in a healthy relationship. This isn't a rejection of them as a person. And you can use like I always to teach, it's the yes no Yes. Model. So it's, I'm saying yes to the relationship, right? I'm saying yes to the validation of something is, important to this person, whether they're asking you to do something or whatever. I'm saying no to the obligation and. It's because I'm saying yes to where I'm at right now. It's, I am saying yes to who I am. So Kelly, we talked a little bit about pleasing and perfecting. Yeah. I wanna hear about the next two, which are performing and hiding. It really interestingly, in my private practice, I started to see these, like four things emerge and the two that are most prevalent in women are pleasing and perfecting. But this performing is also another one. And this is how you can suss it out. Okay. So you can be out there in the world and suss this out. I'm fine, it's all fine. It's good, it's fine. And you use that word. And I always say to my clients or our students, I say to them, that is the worst F word that you can use. Yeah. Oh yeah. That is way worse than the other F word. Because what that is doing, when you put your head on the pillow at night and you know that it's not all fine, you are denying yourself of being human. It's not easy. None of this is easy, navigating a life and motherhood and work and relationships in your life. It is a challenge. It's a challenging thing and it isn't all fine. And when we constantly repeat that to ourselves, we're just denying the fact that we are human beings that don't have to feel like things are fine. Things are hard sometimes I wonder, I feel like it's very, like society tells us to do that. Yeah. And I wonder hearing you say that if everybody's being told that from society and feeling like, yeah. You're as a woman, you're just supposed to be okay. You're good with everything, you're good. And then all of a sudden it bubbles up and you can't do that anymore. Yeah. It's like that's, I'm trying to understand, I think still the disconnect why this ha why it just feels like all of a sudden there's such a, everyone comes to a head at this midlife. And so I think that could be part of it. You're told and you're pushing things down and you're told to say Yeah. That you're fine. And we say the, the term like suffer in silence. Yeah. Yeah. And you're not allowed to speak your mind and you're not allowed to say the things that you're probably feeling. Yes. And you can't anymore. Yes. Things just don't, are not adding up for me. Yeah. And like my house this morning is a perfect example. Yeah. Because I showed you the picture of what my house looked like. Before you walked into it. But yet I still cleaned it up. I didn't let you walk into that mess. So even if women are still comfortable to share what's going on Yeah. And say I'm fine, but make a joke out of it. Yeah. We're still not okay enough to just leave it all out on the table and let it go. Yeah. And that's to, to me, like a dis a disconnect there. Yeah. So sometimes, okay. So a few things, a few thoughts around this. Because I think in that instance, like when you're talking about that, knowing that you like a clean house, like sometimes my brain, like I know for me if my kitchen sink is filled, if my laundry is out control and then I have to go and do a webinar for, you can't focus women's and it sits there. I feel like fraud. It feel, I feel like, okay. Yeah. Fraudulent. It's fraudulent. Yeah. So there's that but some of it is just my own internal, like getting myself right. So almost think of it as ritualistic, right? Yes, I agree. It was it less to get my mind it was less for you coming into this house and not for not judging me, it was for you than it was for me. This house cannot be like this. Yes. Yes. So that I actually don't think is a bad thing. I don't think saying there's a difference there. Yeah. I think if for me, it's to set my day up for success. I, I have a few things I do before I, my feet ever hit the floor. I ask myself, what do I need today? I just say that to myself and I tell all of my clients and all my students to do the same. What do I need today? What's one thing that I need today? And it might just be, I need four extra minutes in bed. It might be something so simple or it might be like, I need to sweat today because like things are, overwhelming right now. And I know if I get a good sweat in, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be right. It might just be, I need to call my, my best friend this morning. I need to get on the phone with her this morning. So I always ask myself that. Then I make my bed. That's a ritual that I have because I feel like I am coming at the world and my bed is made. I don't know if he was a general in the army, but he said something about making your bed every day. And my cousin Pam actually was the one that said to me years ago, she was like, if you make your bed every day, it's just I I'm setting myself up for success for today. Just like symbolic, getting dressed dress. Yeah. So these are not performative things then, because they're for you, you're not performing for anybody else. No. These are all for you. No. If it's like a ritual for you. Ritual. If it's a ritual that's setting you up for the mental clarity and success that you want to have in your day. If it's intentional I'm intentionally doing this to set myself up for success. No, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's when it's, oh my gosh, Kelly Babiak is coming over to my house today. I know she knows so and so If she's comes into my house and sees this like massive mess in my kitchen, she's gonna be judging me. That's the difference is performing. Okay. That is on putting on, and there's a lot of that going on as well. Yes. Yes. So that is the performing, that's the difference between the two. But some of it is just setting yourself up for success in the day. And that's something that like, it calms you, it centers you, I feel like another place we're performing right now is the holidays. It's ah, yep, we had a whole episode about this. Yes. It's like there's a lot of, I've gotta get all the presents right. And a rapid, correctly meet with so and do this. And it's the performing, that's performance performing. Yes. And then you are the exhausted one that wants to like, go to bed early on Christmas day because you're so burn out or yeah. Because you're so exhausted. Yeah. So it's, if those performative things are burning you out, or having you use the word like when somebody looks at you and says, you know what? Christina, you don't feel right to me right now. You feel off and you say, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. It's all fine. I'm okay. She has a, I'm good. Camp, we're bugged weed. Our office is bugged. Doesn't that sound like our conversation? Yeah. Our office is boom. Yeah, it must be. I think sometimes we fear a couple of things. I think we fear, if I say it out loud, I have to do something about it. And I don't necessarily want to do something about it. Right now it's ta it's another task. It's the mirror you don't wanna look into. Yes. Close friends are quite literally Yeah. A mirror. A mirror. That you don't wanna look into. Yes. I think another thing is we don't wanna cry because if we cry then it's I feel like I'm weak or I feel like I, I feel like I might not stop. And I always say to my clients and to my students, tears are so important. They actually mean something is very important to you and something matters to you. And you should let that go. There's also mood regulating properties to shedding tears. And so when you do that, you are actually siphoning off the heaviness of whatever it is that you're carrying, and it's really good for preventing burnout. Crying. Years ago there was a movie that's so interesting. You guys may not know this movie, but it's called Broadcast News. Have you ever heard of this movie? Okay. So Holly Hunter was the actress in the movie, and she was a journalist and she would once a day sit on her bed and just hysterically cry and. I didn't understand it.'cause I was young at the time when I saw the movie. I was like, that's just like weird. But now I understand it as a grown woman because she was just siphoning off the heaviness of all of the emotion. Think about how much emotional space that you take up or you carry for the people around you. And so crying actually take releasing it. Yes. Yeah. It's a burnout preventer. I used to think that crying, this was before I became a mom.'cause I feel like since then I have changed my tune. But I used to hate crying. Because I never did it. Yeah. And then when I would cry, it would just drain the life out of me. Yeah. And I wouldn't feel like it was a productive thing. And then since motherhood, I don't know if this is like what happens, it's probably hormonal, but I do find myself crying all the time. Sometimes it's for happiness. Sometimes it's, we cry here a lot. Yeah. We cry here. I get very choked up. Yep. And it feels more like a release now. Absolutely. So I could see that. I understand that it's like being a productive thing. Yes. Have you guys heard of Jimmy V or listened to Jimmy v's. Famous speech? He was from ESPN. He passed away in 1993. It was just the anniversary of his passing. It was the first time I heard a speech. It was before the Yukon game last week. Okay. He's he said he has this famous speech and it was like a day well lived, consists of crying, laughing, and thinking. Oh. So I always think of him now because I'm like, I lived a good day today. Yeah. Yes. I laughed. You had all three. I cried and I thought every day. Yeah. That's very interesting. I love that. Yeah. I might use that Jimmy VI know, I like it. That's great. So the talk to us about the last one then. Hiding. Hiding, yeah. Because that's also a lot of a big one that we see. Yeah. So the hiding is just flying under the radar. You don't rock the boat, you don't, say the thing that you really want to say. Hiding also can, and often, especially for women, is hiding behind busy. Years ago when I was home with my boys, staying home with my boys, I was the PTO president and I will never forget we were doing an event and I was sitting at the front and everyone that came in, I was like taking their tickets. And so I'm seeing all of these different moms come in and every single one of them. Was giving me some version of their busy story. I was just here and I was just there and I just did this. And then I have to go here and oh my gosh, how are you doing it? Wait, you have three boys, Kelly it was just like this busy. So they were all coming with you at you with nervous energy, nervous, frenetic energy of like just trying to check all the boxes, right? And sometimes we continue to create lots of boxes for us to check because if I didn't have those boxes to check, and I see this a lot with the women who are returning to work who are empty nesters, that they're getting to that portion of their life, where all of a sudden all of those things that kept them busy are off in college and living, like moving onto new distractions. Yes, they were distractions Yes. From things, right? Because they were really hiding from these little whispers of that midlife angst of, you gotta let go of me if you don't let go of me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold you hostage. And so the busy has become something that you're able to hide behind because it. It's productive, right? It's adding it. But you think it is though. It's yeah. Isn't it a little ironic because it may not necessarily be right? I think that's the whole point is yeah, you are really hiding from yourself. Yeah. You're hiding from yourself. So yeah, so that's the way that can manifest. And again, that, the antidote to that is to just take stock of everything that's on your to-do list, right? Everything that you're doing and really do a sort I call it like a life sort, right? It's how do I keep the things that I really wanna execute on? They're so important to me. They actually matter to me. They are things that I don't want anyone else doing. How do I start to delegate more? This is something that I think is underutilized big time in our homes. I was a total culprit of this with my own children, but it was like, you are capable human beings and actually if I don't give you opportunity to be capable human beings and I'm doing everything for you, then I'm doing you a disservice. And also having the expect, because the thing with that was I just knew if I was doing it, it was gonna get done the way I wanted it to be done. And. The reality is when you start to delegate certain things in your life on to your children, onto your spouse, you have to give them the time and space to grow into that be, and it may be done completely differently than you would ever do it. Like a great example of this, my husband Brian when I was going back to work, I was really like, there are certain things I'm not gonna be able to do. And lunches were one of my hated doing lunch. I just, it was like a forever task, he was like I'll do lunches. And I was like, okay. And then I would see what he was putting in the lunches. Like full burger. It's not what you Yeah. And it's not what you would put in the lunch? No, not when I would pretty lunch, but was like a full burger, just like all of this in my opinion, like just grub of guys Grub in there. And I was like, oh my gosh, okay. I was like, you're really gonna put that in there. And he was just like, I am taking this on. Let me, yeah. Yeah. I would just roll my eyes and think to myself, okay, whatever. And I was at a soccer game and this woman who I was friends with, her son was really good friends with one of my sons. She comes up to me, she. What is with your lunches? You are killing it at the seventh grade lunch. Oh, what a dagger. I was, oh, what do you mean? And she said, she goes, oh my God. Like full burgers, Kelly. What is happening? The boys are all jealous of your lunches. And so of course I just completely took credit for it. And, didn't give Brian the No, I'm kidding. I did. I was like actually, that Brian's been making the lunches. Wow. But it taught me a really valuable lesson. Yeah. And the valuable lesson, I actually tell this story in my course. I tell this story to my clients too. Specifically because I thought I had all the answers. Because I had been in that role. I was a fine oiled machine when it came to some of these tasks. And when you release responsibility onto other people, when you actually share the load, they may do it and they actually may do it better than you've done it. And so that was a valuable lesson. Women have to please do it better than me. Yeah. Women have to accept it though, because sometimes I think there's a badge of honor and no. Nobody else can do it as good as me. Yes. Nope. Dad doesn't know what he's doing. Nope. Nope. But sometimes dad does. Do things better. Yes. And that's okay. You have to be comfortable with that. I wish that my husband was better at laundry. Yeah. Vacuuming and cleaning toilets. Yes. Than me. Yes. Yes. I know. Wouldn't that be nice? Can we grow that in him? I know. Interestingly then the other, like, when you're doing this sort, it's okay, so what am I keeping? What am I delegating? What am I outsourcing? What are my kids not seeing me do? Yes. Because whatever they see me do I wanna do. Yes. If they're not seeing me do it, and I can afford to delegate it so I can spend my time earning more money. Yes. Yes. That would be like the perfect Yes. When I started my private practice. And I really at that point I was busy, I was but not busy. Chop box checking. You were like no. Actually productively busy. Yes. I, all of a sudden I had a lot of my time that I would normally have to do all these other tasks. Like I, it was filled. Like my schedule was filled. And I always say this to my clients, ask yourself so when you're trying to create like a work, I call it work life synergy. Because there is no balance. I hope you both know that. There is no such thing as balance. It's work life integration. You Yes. It is quite literally all one now. Yes. I call it a synergy. A synergy. Synergy because Okay. The way that I look at it is. Even if I am giving, because there are season like seasons of time in my work where it's like we're in a launch, I am all in I teach a lot of the upfront of the course, so it's like I am like all hands on deck. Like my, a lot of my energy is going there. So I know I'm not volunteering in a classroom or I'm not taking on, some big task. I'm not, running the baseball roster, of parent tailgating events. Like I'm not doing those things right. Because so much of my energy is going over here and and so then there will be a time where that doesn't need as much it, so then it shifts. Yes. So then now I'm giving it more to this area, but I am always keenly aware that there are times, like I missed my son's third birthday because I was getting my coaching degree and it was a really hard situation to be in, but. Giving him a woman in the world as an example of someone who went after something that was really important to her. And, brought this business to life. Like he has grown up seeing his mother do this and be a fulfilled mother, because that was what was important to me. So you have to define a much larger than your presence on one day. That as the biggest gift I probably have given him in his life. I wanna get into your background. Yes. Because we really haven't given Yes. Like the meat and potatoes of your background, but, so can you give us,'cause you had mentioned, so you have four kids. Yes. There's a big age gap between there three and the last one. Yes. So I want, but we wanna take our listeners in a little bit Yeah. Get to know how you started this business. Yeah. So take us back, give us a little like elevator spiel of your life. Okay. Okay. It's so funny because now I turned 50 this last year and now I'm like, oh my gosh. I really do have a long story now. Yeah, you do. So I actually began my career in traditional public education. I came from a long line of educators. The gym in my high school was named after my grandfather. Wow. So it was a really like natural progression that I would go to school and become a teacher. And if you ask me at the core of who I am, I'm a teacher. Okay. I love that. So I, I began my career in traditional public education and then when I got my master's degree, I moved into more of an administrative role. And at that time my two older boys were they were still small, but I just was feeling this I needed more flexibility. When I was doing my thesis for my master's, my advisor, she worked as an educational consultant in the charter schools in New York City. And she said to me, Kelly, I think this could be really good for you. There's a lot of flexibility in it. It's, it's still keeping your foot in an education. And I said, you know what? Yeah, I'll do that. So I did that and it was awesome work. I got to see these little islands of hope and just really great education. Really great. I met a lot of really great people doing that work, but around the time that I was about six months pregnant with my third son. Because I would have to go into New York City and I would be gone for a week at a time when I would Wow. When I did that. So it was like I was full-time home and then I would be checked out completely for an entire week. Wow. And I was on the train going into New York City and my husband called me and the sink was stopped up. And who was the plumber? And, the nanny was late and I just remember this like surge of like anxiety and overwhelm. And I was standing, I will never forget this. I was standing on the street corner in New York City and I just made this internal declaration something's gotta give Cal, like something has to give and I think it's gonna be this. You wanted to probably teleport home at that exact moment. Yeah. Yeah. My maternal pole was so strong. So I ended up deciding that I was going to go full-time, stay at home mom. And there is a privilege that you financially can do that make that decision. There is a huge sacrifice in that, that I don't think it's talked about enough. Because there is a loss of identity, like I'm a teacher. This is what I do. Like I work in education. When I sit down and go out to a cocktail hour, I'm talking about what's, what was happening in education and, what was going on. And it was your first love. It was your first passion. Yes. Yes. And there, there's a confidence loss. There's, there's just a loss. And I think that is something that if you are a woman out there right now that is, a full-time stay-at-home mom, just know that if you are feeling that way, that is totally normal and valid. I know. And I feel like society tries to tell you otherwise. We had a comment on our page that bothered me when t had opened up about this Yeah. A couple weeks ago. We talked about identities and roles. And she had shared just your own opinion with was that you felt like when you made the choice to leave your job and stay home, you felt very privileged and grateful that you were able to do so. but your husband's career skyrocketed. And he went up this way and had a whole new direction and was working a ton. And you felt a little bit left in the dust, was what you said. You felt like you were home now with two kids. You had a huge level of responsibility staying at home. Managing the house, managing the kids, managing everything. Yeah. And we had a comment on our page it was from a man, and he said, first of all, you should be checking who you surround yourself with, who are making you feel that way. Which I don't think that you need to check the level. I think the feeling is internal. It was, you were saying it was an internal feeling. Yeah, it was an internal feeling. And the fact that it was a man that said that just validated the whole statement. And I again, and it was like, you should be grateful to be able to stay home with your kids. That's a privilege. That's the best thing that you could do. And we both got heated. I think I even got a little bit more heated than her. I think they can all be true together. All of it can be true. At the same time, I'm grateful. I am grateful my husband works and I also was grateful that I used to work. And it's also a big shift when you stop working either voluntarily or not voluntarily. It's a shift that needs to be recognized. Yeah. And raising children is amazing. Yeah. It's also work in another way. It is work. It's so much work and it's not the same type of fulfillment. I never close the loop. I am I think I'm output driven in some ways. Yeah. I like to finish a project. Yeah. Even emptying the dishwasher. I like to empty the dishwasher. Done. Task, you get the accolade done, yes. This is done. Yep. Children are not ever done. No. And even when you have a good day with a kid and they do, do you really know that? Yeah. It's a it's very different. Yeah. It is. It is very different. And so that comment, I think is an example of why women don't say my my God. Wow. This is different. Yeah. Because it's, look at what, look what happens. You say it and then it gets someone tells you, you get criticized when it, you, that was like shaming you for your feelings, which are valid. And I think what's even more interesting is that you two had shared this with me before we got to recording today. Yeah. And that your private inbox was filled. Women with womens felt the same. Exactly. And you were like validated and Yeah. Privately. And they were doing it privately. Privately, yes. Because there is this shame. So again, when we go back to what we said about having that team of people around you that actually get to weigh in and let tell you something in this podcast space, and when you put yourself out online in this way, in the shape in, in this capacity, you better be really clear who gets to really weigh in. True on what you're saying. Yep. Anybody that has a voice can weigh in. Yes. You can say whatever you want. This is a public platform, but you But I decide Exactly. I get to decide what I'm gonna take back in. Yeah, absolutely. And what I've noticed is if you don't lie Yeah. And you really don't lie. And it's very easy to lie, I think. If you're trying to play something else, but if you don't lie, perform, you are honest and you're not Yeah. Perfectly used, perform and you're not performing. It is very easy to let people say whatever they want back. Absolutely. Not Take it in if you're just being truthful. Yes. And that's a skill that doesn't just happen overnight. No. And it also says to me that you validate your own feelings. And that's a good thing because there are a lot of people who just don't. They will marginalize the way that they're feeling or they will listen to that voice. And again, like this is an example of like you giving permission to someone out there Yeah. That was feeling the same, to be able to voice that. And there will always be people that are gonna be critics of that. I felt that judgment. That's why I am telling you. That's what I'm saying. Yes. I really did. Was like, I should be, wow. I should feel so happy'cause you made this choice. Yes. You think it's solving a problem, but it's sometimes creating other things. Yes. That will come up, other feelings, and that was, and that was also a number of years ago. I think, what I am seeing now this shift in, it is almost impossible for not, it's to be, I it's changed a lot. Yes. Yeah. I think even in, in five plus years, dual family income. So I think something different's happening there. I actually think what's happening there is women are staying in careers or work because they have to, because of all of the financial responsibilities and there's a different kind of like shame that's happening there. And. They are feeling like I have to do this because if I don't, then financially we could be in really big trouble. Or we wouldn't have the freedom to do these things that we really want to do. And I think that leads to burnout for sure. So then it becomes, oftentimes it'll be a force.'cause I see this that has happened with a lot of women in our course, that what will happen with them is they, white knuckled stayed in and didn't take care of themselves, didn't make their self care a priority, didn't speak to their spouse or their partner and say time out. I'm gonna need this, and this so that I can stay whole to be able to sustain this. Because I know this is something that is important and we have to do, but didn't have the conscious conversations with the people around them. Didn't put the supports around them to, give themselves the time to self care. So you see this with your working moms Yes. And your moms who have been home Yes. Who want to reenter Yes. The workforce. So I want, I wanna get into this. Yes. I wanna get into this part. So yeah, we left off with you on a personal note. Yes. You were. Home now? Yes. Okay. For the first time, stay at home mom of three kids. Yes. There was this one day where, when you're trying to get all of your kids out the door and where they have to go, and and it was my, it was one of my son's birthdays and I was very much in my perfectionist era during this time. So I had made this whole cupcake display and I had all these different cupcakes and it looked like they were tied together as a ribbon. It looked like a bouquet of balloons. Oh. It was like really, like it was on another level. And this is like this. I feel like I know where this is going too. Yes. This is where the perfectionist is like running the room. And I go upstairs to get like teeth brushed shoes on, like trying to do all of that. And I come downstairs and we had, at the time rest in peace, George, we had 120 pound greater Swiss mountain dog. And he is sitting, and I see he's got frost. He's covered in blue all up his arms. I knew it was gonna be either that or one of the kids. I said, oh yes, that's getting ruined. I was gonna guess the kitchen floor. Yes. And I go in and it's just smashed to pieces and I. Literally fell onto my knees and started crying. And in, in my mind I was like, oh, sister. Yeah. What has happened to you that you are crying over cupcakes? You better do something about this. I really had that internal dialogue. That was what was going on. Were you feeling like I was the, like I said, the perfectionist was running the room. I was definitely intellectually cupcakes gonna a school party. Yes. They were going. All the looking for, we always say the attaboy you're looking for. Yep. The, because a lot of, I think being a mother, you don't get that like pat on the back. Yes. Yes. And so sometimes we output, we look for those things where you're gonna get Yes. Recognition, you're gonna get the gold star. Yes. Yeah. Yep. So that was the whisper. That was the like that doesn't sound like a whisper. That sounds like a scream. Yeah. That was like a bit of a, that smack in the face. Across the face. Yeah. But so I ultimately, I started to listen to that like little whisper that slap that whisper. Like all the things of you gotta do something, I gotta get outta here. This is not you shouldn't feel like this. This is something's gotta happen here, Cal. And I met with some people about work they were doing. I went, met back with old colleagues again. And and I ultimately was having a conversation with my mom. She's a retired guidance counselor, and she shout out to Patty and she she said to me, I said, mom, I don't know if what I wanna do is invented. I was like, I don't know. Because at the time, like life coaching, like wasn't a thing. And I said, it's not therapy, it's not like a guidance counselor. It's, but it's something about taking a look at your life and, trying to attain the goals that you have for yourself or doing some introspective work within that. And so she said, just Google a bachelor's degree in life coaching. So I did and UP came this program at University of Pennsylvania and it was an arm of psychology called Positive Psychology. Wow. And I hadn't heard anything about it. So then I started researching that, and then on their website was actually. Recording of, because they didn't have, there were no such thing as webinars or, because this is, take us back, you said 15 years ago? Yes. This is, no, this is probably more like 16 or 17 years ago. Okay. Because this was when you had the idea you hadn't Yes. Started the business. Got it. Yes. Okay. And so I listened to the, it was a recording of an admissions call and there was a woman who was on the call and she was a mom and she was also doing the program and she was also building this business. And I will fully admit, I cyber stalked her, which back in the day was really much more difficult than it is today. And I found an email address for her and I sent her an email and I said, I heard you on this this recorded call. I'm really interested in hearing more about the work that you are doing, how you're balancing it as a mom. And I'd love to, to chat with you if you have some time. She got right back to me. Wow. And I think that the lesson in this is that. When you are trying to figure out the next thing for you, having mentors are really important. A hundred percent. Having people that you can really talk to and gain some wisdom from will help you on your path. And and you didn't even know what that path I didn't was, I did not know what that path. You found something in this woman Yes. And you Yes. Gravitated towards her. So she was giving me the clarity, just our conversation gave us, I've never met her in person. I had one hour and a half phone call with her as she was driving back from a speaking event that she was at. It just worked out. It just jived. Yes. But ultimately it was so pivotal because I made, I started to make real conscious decisions of what I was gonna do. And so I ended up going to coaching school, ended up not doing that program. I ended up doing another program that she had recommended for me. I went through the coaching program. As I got through the coaching program for the credentialing for your certification, you have to start to accrue hours. So I was coaching everybody's like mother, sister, friend. And by the end of my time I had a full pretty robust coaching practice of women that I was working with. And what was that practice called? Because you still have that practice. Yep. It's bu bravely I. Fast forward in the story. Little side note, I had a child in 2019 that was a very unexpected, wonderful, surprise. But so I had dialed that back considerably, but I've always kept, like I have clients that a lot just had for years. And what was your what did you want the coaching subject to be about? Did you know that it was going to be it was really women focused, so what I was doing was really helping women and what I still do is help women define who are you now? That value shift that we talked about that happens. Who are you now? What do you want for your life? Like how are you gonna get there? What's the direction that you're gonna go in and how are you gonna get there? And so I started doing that work. And then my now business partner, Susan Ano Davey, her and I were speaking at this women's conference and she worked in executive coaching and she worked with MBA moms. And I remember listening to her and thinking, gosh, I really could probably send her some clients, because a lot of the women I was working with, it was pointing'em in the direction of career, whether it be a career pivot or a career return to what they were doing before. And so at first we just started, I started passing clients to her, and then we did a seminar for for women through an organization that was in the area. And then we realized, because she had a lot of connections with people outside of just our geographical area, we really realized we could take this online. And there were not a lot of online courses. It was probably about eight years ago. And yeah, that's probably when they just started. Yeah, they were just starting. We had to hire, like now we have So he scaled a full platform. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So we created a full course. It's a 10 week course for women who are returning to work or pivoting called Prepare to Launch You. We run that three times a year. And it really takes them from rediscovering who are you now? Mm-hmm. What you know you want to do, what lane you wanna be, and what audience you're gonna speak to. And then all of the tactical tools, the resume, the LinkedIn, which we're all Susan's expertise. She's a master at teaching interview skills and networking, negotiating. So the women come to us in cohort form and they go through the course and the 10 weeks. And then we actually work with an organization also out of New York City called Four Block. And they are a military veteran. Would you say? Veterans they help when you're transitioning to civilian life. They help them get jobs and they came to us about six years ago and asked us to build a program for military spouses specifically. And the beauty of that program is it's completely subsidized by four block. So we have worked with women from all, all over the world. I work with women from all over the world. It's really it's great and very fulfilling work. And and again, I will always love my private clients too. I learn a lot from my private clients that ultimately helps me be better in in my practice. And I also always say I don't know that I'm ever gonna be done. This, like such high levels of depression and anxiety. And I'm like really starting to realize maybe I do need some training for, to be a therapist and work in that arena because you have a passion behind it too. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I was gonna say, what are some commonalities that you find across the board for women when women are coming to you and they're taking your courses Yep. Or they're seeking you out for you to be their coach. Yes. They're obviously looking for something. Yeah. What do you think women are looking for? I definitely think, again, they show up maybe trying to look for happiness. The course women are trying to find a job, there might be a financial imperative. There's a lot of layoffs that are happening in the world right now, and so there's a threat of. Their financial situation. Mm-hmm. They may be having children that are going to college, things like that. So there's that job seeking component, really that, like pretty strong, but I actually think they all kind of work together. Yeah. And that's why our courses the way that it is, because there, there is a way to do work in the world that is fulfilling to you, that is giving you a sense of being centered and having purpose. And I really think if I were to say there is like one common theme, it's that women want to be listened to. They want to be heard, they want to be validated for the feelings that, and the thoughts that they're having. And then they wanna do something about it. They don't wanna stay there. They don't wanna lament there, they don't wanna circle the drain there. Women are the most capable people, and mothers especially. And I and I take that back you don't have to be a mother to be capable. It's, but there is just a drive that women have to move their lives forward. And they just need a space to really think about it. And I always have hung my hat on the idea that if you heal the heart of, a woman, your communities get better, your families are better. There's more of an impact that happens in the world. So if you do that you are not just, it's not just that one client that I'm working with. I'm like, there's a whole ecosystem behind her. Yes. That's gonna be better because of it. Have you stayed in touch with your women that you've launched Yeah. Into the working force? Yeah. What are some jobs that you've helped a woman get into that you never, that woman never thought that they would enter into? I think a great story. It was one of our students who had worked in engineering and in the in in automotives, but like way back when GM way back a million years ago, and she left and she was out for 26 years. Wow. Raising her children. I think one of her children was neurodivergent, so it was like she was home with them for an extended period of time and then it just kept going. And she ended up getting a job when she reentered the workforce for Waymo, which is Amazon's electric car company. And it was her son that networked to get her the job. No way. Oh, like such a cool story. Yeah. Yeah. So but we have everything, we have teachers, we have people that, go back and might do something in medicine. We have a lot of people working in corporate America and all different types of positions. You name it they've come through and they've landed, and it's interesting sometimes they'll come back'cause we have a grad program, so they'll come back because they wanna pivot. Or they may experience a layoff so they'll come back because of that. Yeah, we have just name it. And it's probably been something that, one of our students is out in the world doing now or Right. Reentering the workforce I think is so interesting'cause there's so many reasons why you would do it. Yes. What I didn't realize was that children are so expensive. I thought that they were gonna be, they were expensive as they were little because I was paying for preschool and childcare and all of the custodial day-to-day stuff. Yes. And now I have a son that wants to go to private high school and then we have to pay for college and life activities. All of the things that they Oh yeah. The activities are big. Yes. And I'm happy to invest our money in them because they, I feel like they have such an bigger impact on their life. Yeah. But. I we have to work to afford these things. Absolutely. And sometimes people don't like to say those words out loud because talking about finances isn't always eloquent and you're not supposed to talk about that stuff. But life is expensive. You have to work for it. Yes. And so a dual income family is the way to achieve it in many situations. Yes. And you have a skillset or you have something that really can help contribute, because that's actually when our application, when students are applying for our course that's one of the questions like, is it, is there a financial imperative? Is it sometimes it's divorce. That's another big one. And that's one of those things where women who maybe have stayed in the workplace but, decelerate their career and, don't take the promotions and everything like that because somebody had to give in that situation, someone always has to give. And then a divorce comes online, and you feel set back. Yes. Yeah. Yep. And women who have stepped out completely to, care and everything that, that can end up being, a big issue when it comes to returning to work. It's not that I want to return to work, it's, I have to return to work. There is this, extra stress added to it.. I think the world has just gotten so, it's a hard truth. Yes. Everything has changed. Even if you look at the last five years. Yeah. I think that. Everything has gone up in price. Like it is just, the world is so expensive. And so I don't think, I don't think that there are as many choices as there used to be. Yes. And I think that's what Tia is getting at. It's not, I don't think it's as easy as, oh, my husband makes enough for me to stay home with the kids. Yeah. I think that is a very small amount of what's going on right now. And I will tell you both. It is, yeah. It's very different. At the story that we haven't really told was, I have a 22-year-old, I have a 20-year-old, I have a 17-year-old and I have a 5-year-old. You could probably firsthand all I'm doing firsthand You're seeing it. Yeah. I'm doing this all over again. And everything that I say to my friends especially, is it's dual income families. Yeah. A lot of the women who have become my friends now that I'm meeting this like younger generation of women who I love and they're just so interesting. It is the stressors of doing it all and having. No choice in the matter. And that's what I was saying, like with the burnout piece. So I think what, where we see that the cross section of those women is in the pivoting. So they're coming to the call now. That's where I am. They're enrolled in program. I'm in pivot. You're in a pivot. Yeah. Yes. So I think it's like they're coming to the course and they're may be working. Re the remote working world has allowed a little bit of space for women to be able to do that. But they're saying to themselves, if I'm gonna have to continue to work, I don't wanna have to do it in this capacity or in this way. And so I think that's a great, way for if there are women in your audience that are currently working. And feeling I am in the land of burnout. Just even doing a bit of work about around thinking what if I were to pivot to something else, what might that be? Sometimes just that bit of hope that there is, there's a way out there so else of this, so yes. That there's something more for me is going to allow them to not feel as heavy and, stuck as they currently may feel. But that is a bit I am seeing that. Absolutely. And I think about it for my own, my boys are getting up there, my 22-year-old is graduating from college this year, and I think to myself, he is gonna have a good job, but. How is he gonna be able to afford housing and all these things. So there, there are some real financial imperatives that are happening now that were very different 15 years ago when I was a time ago for sure. Yeah. I guess when I said I'm feel like I'm in that pivot. Yes. Yeah. Tell me. I think, more, I feel very comfortable with my roles as stay at home mom. Yep. I'm a stay-at-home mom and now I'm pivoting into sort of working again. I don't have really good definition as to what that is quite yet. Yes. Yeah. So I'm like, your student that's just starting off. Yes. And that pivot in that transition. Yes. And that's a wild ride. We always say the first two to three months, and now you're a year in think about when you first started and you were trying to navigate everything and you had been in this really defined role for an extended period of time. Now you're trying to make room for all that. This is, there was probably some fuel from the excitement of doing something new and getting this off the ground and the fulfillment from that. But then there were also the pitfalls of, what about the responsibilities that are in the house? And, and toggling with those don't go away. No. No. They definitely don't. And also, just in hearing my career story, and we talked a little bit about you too, like just understand that there's a lot of life to be lived. I could be doing this work until I'm eight. It's, I think that's the beauty of right now is that we're saying all of the negative things that are, it's an expensive world to live in. Yes. But there's also like boundless opportunities. Absolutely. And it's not making money. Things aren't ending at 65 and making money and having financial freedom as a woman does not have to be the traditional going to an office and grinding and no. Doing a, eight to six type of job. There's a lot of different ways Yes. That you can reenter the workforce. Yes. And I'm saying that in quotations. Yes. Where just you're able to work, have something else and have financial freedom. Yes. So we are in this world, we have to look at it as a positive too. Yes. So do you teach that in your courses? Yes, because I'm there. Yes. And I think, yeah, we do a lot of helping you connect the dots Yeah. Of all of these different things that maybe are over the span of your career. And how does that tell this compelling story that makes you the best candidate for this next job that you're ultimately going after? Yes, we definitely do that. And I also think allowing yourself to know that you are gonna morph and grow. I could still be working in traditional public education. And doing that, to this day which is great. But then you can also, but then but, and. I think that, allowing myself to still hold onto the pieces of what I loved at the very core of the work I was doing in the world, and find another way to mo like monetize that money, monetize that, and make money doing that is something that is possible in this world where we can pretty much create, anything that we want to. It's, some of it takes a little bit of bravery and a little bit of I'm doing it outside the box. That allows you to have that synergy that you talked about earlier. Yes. Because when you, if you are loving what you're doing, you're able to live your life like that. Yes. Yes. And I also think that, for those people in your audience who are currently working and maybe not feeling super fulfilled by the work that they're doing, to really think about, this is your short term, right? This is an income stream, this is something you're doing. And then have that thing on the side that is the long term. So I'm going to, I'm not even gonna make it like you're gonna start a business. I'm gonna make it like this. If you're currently working in corporate America and you feel totally unfulfilled by the work that you're doing, but you are a very empathetic person that can really listen to other people and, has a deeper maybe your long-term goal is that you're going to be, become a therapist. And so maybe it's making steps towards how do you make that happen and how do you create space for that in your life and get really intentional about, growing yourself towards this bigger, greater vision that you have for yourself. I love that word. Yeah. And sometimes people need the motivation to hear I can change, I can pivot, I can go back to school. Yes. I can do all of these things. And be really aware if burnout is running your life and your decisions. I was having a conversation with my sister-in-law, this is like a couple weeks ago. She is a public educator. She actually is a guidance counselor and or a school counselor in an elementary school. And it's tough. You see a lot of tough things. There's a lot of political stuff that goes on. It's just like there's layers upon layers. And she has always had a want for doing a private practice. She was just telling me, that's it. I'm not doing any of this. I don't wanna, I don't wanna work one-on-one with clients, that's not something I want to do. And I just said to her. You are totally burnt out right now. This is something that I know you love. I know this is something that you are so unbelievably good at. You are just really burnt out right now. So maybe take a deep breath, go on holiday vacation, and then really think about what am I going to do to m make steps towards this next chapter of my life that isn't in the traditional public school setting. I just had this is exactly what happened to me. Yeah. I had been a content creator for 13 or 14 years, probably to probably 12 before having a baby and I, which was non-traditional, which was an always a non-traditional role. 12, 12 years ago always was a non-traditional role, and after having a baby I wasn't really able to integrate. Both of those because it's a very complicated thing, having your life online and then having a family. Yeah. Yep. And there's certain kind of boundaries that I wanted to put up and wasn't. And you had values shift Probably. I had values and my family, my own little internal, we always call it the nuclear family had values around that. Yep. And we weren't comfortable blending the two together. The way that you always see it online, where it's like a family account. We weren't gonna be that. And so I had a struggle with that identity. Like where am I? Am I working? Am I'm trying to blend, but if I pretend my kids don't exist in my content, it's not really authentic, but then I can't let it take over because there's a boundary. Travel. Travel and beauty vlog. But you can't be traveling'cause it's COVID. And I can't be dressing up and I can't be, I can't be attending all these events because I'm at home with my family. And so it really came to a head. Yeah. And I. Was going to quit last year. That was a huge thing. Okay. I was ready to just leave it, just leave it in the dust. I was like, I'm done with this. Yeah. Because I didn't even wanna make the decision anymore. I didn't even wanna deal with the toggling of the two, and I felt very confused about the direction and who I am, and I had to do so much of an exercise in my mind. Of what do I even want to do? Yeah. How can I make this space work for me again? Yeah. Enter the podcast. Yeah. The podcast was an idea that came to me. Yep. I said I need long form content. I need to be able to talk Yep. About my family without showing my family all the time. Yes. And I need to talk about it from my point of view. And so that was just another way. It was an exercise that I actually did in therapy Yes. About what do I need and what do I want out of this? I love it. And how can I blend this so it makes sense for me and my family and enter the podcast? So it was an idea and now it's another sort of business. Yeah. For me. Yeah. Yeah. And even though you were at a burnout, I was at a complete burnout. It might have sounded sort of, kind of productive to add more work to you when you were at a burnout. Yeah. But it didn't, it reignited your other businessly. Yes, it did. And I think that's a good point that we should share with our listeners who are feeling burnt out. Because I was gonna say, I bet you the next to the next question someone would go is, how the hell do I have time today this to add something else? How am I supposed to add something else? I think that's a valid, this is a perfect example. And it's not easy. It's not easy. Yes. It's not easy. I wanna say this. When you are in burnout, there are certain ways to get yourself out of burnout. And one of them is exercise. It doesn't have to be anything more than 20 minutes of movement. That is number one. You can breathe, you can take deep breaths, you can be social you can cry it out like we talked about before. You can be creative. So that's what this fulfills. This helps you offload burnout actually, when you allow yourself to start to think creatively about something, problem solving yourself out of your current situation. So if you think of it from that perspective, if I start to think about this in a creative way, you are actually siphoning off the adrenaline, there's all science behind this, right? But you are siphoning off what I call that stress juice. So that you're able to move again. The listeners should think about it in that way. If you are in that space it's first it's a thought. It's just thinking about it. Because that's what you did. Yep. You probably ended up in therapy'cause you were like, I am Max. I'm totally, I had no, yeah. I had no idea what to do next. Yep. And I knew I just needed to talk to somebody Yes. About the full picture. Yep. And so that's how I ended up, because I was like, everyone else in my life has just heard me circling around this. Yes. And nobody knows what to do next. Yes. Because the next thing was me. Yes. I needed to do the work. You need to do something. I needed to figure it out on my own. I was just complaining about it and complaining and circling. Yeah. And so I was stuck and I needed Yes. To figure out how to get unstuck. Yes. So good distinction for people to understand is there are, so there is a siphoning off and there is. A venting. Yes. And I'm a classic venter. Yes. And it's compiling. Yes. And so it's get in it with me. Let's just let's rehash this and talk it out. Let's get in let's talk about how bad it is and how horrible it is. And you can always find somebody to get in it with you. And you do want to do some of the siphoning off, but it's, you have to set up the conversation. Christina, when be conductive I'm gonna let it rip right now. Okay. I'm gonna say everything that's going on in my head. I actually don't want you to fix this. I don't want you to, you're not right for a solution. I just want you to just sit in the room and just hear what's coming out of my mouth. And and that actually gets rid of some of the heaviness of it. It does. So that, the next best step to take it does. But then I think that's a very easy place to stay in. Totally. And I think that's the place where it's hard to move on from and then you have to say, okay, what's the next step then? Yep. Yep. And therapy for me was that next step is figuring out talking. I had practices from that where I was journaling, I was thinking through things. Yeah. I, it was allowing me some space, even though it was adding to my workload, if you wanna call it that. Yeah. It was it allowed me to have to think a little bit more openly about what I want to do. Yeah. And. From there, there was baby steps of action. You take action that I could take. That's very much my private practice. Yes. I do a lot of that. I love that. Work with women where it's like I think you need the one-on-one sometimes. Yes. Especially if you're so stuck like me. Like I would've been like a one-on-one, I think, because I think the course is wonderful, right? If you kind, if you're not there, right? Yes. If you're, but this is probably like 10 steps behind that if you're just feeling so lost and you don't even know.'cause I think a lot of the times things seem so hard when you're in that place. Even just little baby steps seem impossible. Yes. And I think sometimes you really need a little bit more handholding at that point. Yes. And so I think that for people listening, this would be a great, you need guidance in how to take a deeper dive into who you are. Yes. And then actually what action steps, what plans am I gonna put into place? And that is a big part of how coaching works, where it's, let's look at the here and now. And let's. Just acknowledge the here and now, but then let's put some action behind how we're going to move ourself toward more of what we really want. So we're not staying in this place. And if you think about that, like an investment into yourself, a hundred percent. I think that sometimes finances can be stressful and when you're not working and when you're adding things, to try to take care of yourself, everything has a price tag, right? Yes. And a lot of things for me, were hard to swallow. The last year I took a huge step back from work. Yes. And then now I'm trying to find myself again. And some of those things come with the price tag. Yes. And you're like, all I'm doing is investing investing. But I had to look at them as like investing into myself. Absolutely. And they were going to pay forward. And they have Absolutely. I think that sitting here today. From where I was a year ago is night and day different. Yeah. And it's because I invested into myself. Yeah. And you were, you have to do that. You have to do that. Last year you were I'm fine. I'm fine. Yep. I'm fine. I'm fine. Which is what CLA Kelly started with that podcast. I think that's why we spent so much time dissecting those first four things. Yeah. Because it all comes back. Yep. Yeah, it does. So I just want it to be a message of hope to people. Yeah. Yes. That sometimes things seem where you're like I can't invest in myself. I can't do that If you're feeling stuck. Yeah. You have to invest in yourself. Yeah. You're never gonna get unstuck. Absolutely. If you don't take the time, you don't invest in yourself. You don't spend the time with yourself. Yeah. You don't spend the time finding the right team in place to help you get to the next level. Yes. All of these things Yes. Can be looked at as a very positive thing. Yes. And that's, I think that's the world that we're in right now. Absolutely. Whether you or not, you wanna say it like that's the direction of things. I don't think anything is slowing down in the world. I think we're here to stay in this world where everything's expensive. I think you're gonna see more dual income families than non-dual income families. Yeah. And this is just the worlds we live in right now. And so I think people are gonna be working longer than our parents did. Yeah. I think that we just have to swallow that's where we're at right now. Yes. And you have to do something about it. Yes. And. You can be doing something that really is fueling you fulfilling as a human, right? Yeah. You can have both and a non-traditional approach, right? Yeah. Like I went to college for something. Yeah. I don't have to do practice that right now in my everyday life, but just talking to in this past hour, you pointed out qualities in me that could serve me in a paid position that I didn't even know Yeah. Was there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. There's a lot of power in conversation for sure. And I think that's what this podcast is doing, the two of you talking back and forth about a lot of what you're doing.'cause both of you have said it's been transformative for you, for us, in your own right. Over the course of this last year. And that's because you're processing through your thoughts, your feelings, your emotions, you're processing through that by talking. Having people, even if it's not a coach, if it's not a therapist but having people in your life that you can process this stuff out with they may say to you, it's time for the therapist, or it's time for the coach, or, invest in yourself. Invest in if you can't say that to yourself. So I love that. So I think of our listeners are feeling this I don't know, suffocating feeling. I feel like when you come and you're like. I don't like where I'm at right now. Yeah. I want everybody to feel encouraged to make that next step. And I think Kelly is a great example because you do virtual. You do virtual clients as well? Yep. And you then you also have access to her coaching. So I feel this is like a double, you can get, take your pick of what you wanna do, but I feel like you, having you on is you're an actionable next step where people can actually, if they're feeling this way and they feel like they've journaled it all out and they're like, okay, what's the next actionable step? Yeah. Yeah. We actually have it here for you guys. Yes. So I want you to take advantage of this if you're feeling this way.'cause I know it's common. So we'll put the two in the show notes for today. But just let our listeners know where they can find you. Kelly at prepare to launch you.com. That's, if you wanna get me personally, if you wanna learn more about prepare to launch you the course and other work that we do you can visit that at www.preparetolaunchyoutheletteru.com. If you're interested in the private coaching, that's at www dot bu bravely, and it's BEYO. It's all spelled out. Okay. Okay. bravely.com. That's amazing. All right. So we couldn't let you go without, without you sharing your pink spotlight. Oh. So explain this to me. This is it. So Christina and I like to close out all of our podcasts with a person, place, thing, tip, mantra, something you're eating, something you're doing okay. Anything that is just making life a little bit better, a little bit better. And it doesn't always need to be on theme with today's episode. No. Okay. Mine happens to be, but it can be anything. Okay. Anything at all. Okay. We can go first if you wanna ponder. Okay. Yeah, you go. Yeah, you go first. So lemme think. What about you t So my, it's funny'cause I was thinking what's my pink spotlight gonna be? And I'm an, I'm always in a group chat with my two sisters. Yeah. I'm the oldest. I have a sister that's two and a half years younger than me, and then another sister that's 13 years younger than me. Yeah. So similar to. What you had. My mother had the same thing, like big age gap. Yep. And you were saying earlier you just need two people. Yeah. Like my two people are my two sisters. I love that. Yes. I love them both so much. Yeah. We were just joking that we should just move into a house together because between the three of us, we would be one good person. Oh, I love it. I love it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We're both, we're all so different. But I, my pink spotlight this week are my two sisters. I love them both so much. And around this time of year, it's like hectic and crazy and everybody's like worried about, oh, what are we buying? What are we doing? Yeah. We just wanna spend time together. And I just wanna give them both a plug that they're my pink spotlight. I love that. I love that. That is so sweet. That is best love one love. While do have yours mushy gushy. Yeah. I love that. Do you have yours, Kelly? Yeah. Yeah. I interesting. I am gonna go with more of the family thing because all of my boys are gonna be under one roof. Oh. Oh. That's the best. It's starting tomorrow. My last of my college age kids is coming home. And I am just so looking forward to having everybody under one roof. It'll be a lot louder. A lot more messy. There's plenty more food that's gonna be consumed in our house, but I just, there is the energy, such a joy in laying my head on the pillow and knowing that they're all laying their heads on their pillows. So that's my pink spot. I like need to hear that too.'cause my kids are obviously little and so to me it feels like they're gonna be here for forever. Yes. Yes. And. I the loudness and all of that Oh yeah. Is something that I, it has taken just so much for me to get used to Yeah. A loud house. Yeah. And I know one day I'm gonna miss it. Oh yeah. I know. One day when it's silent in my house, it feels weird already. Yeah. And so I know I'm, I know that's looming, yes. And I always hear people say that. Yes. Yes. Like they want the mess. Yes. They want the loud house. And Yes. It's a similar feeling too. Remember, when you go into their bed Yeah. Their bedroom and they're sleeping. Yeah. And they're so peaceful. There's like that similar ah, okay, we made it. Yeah. It's like that kind of feeling is very similar. When they return, when they all came home. When they all come home from school and they're all under one roof. I love that. Oh. And I'm sure your little guy is probably still excited for his big brothers to I know the littlest one the look on his face yesterday when my oldest was home and he, I said, come to the bus, stop with me. And it was like, he didn't even see me. All he saw was Charlie and he just went straight for him. Big hug. That's so sweet. Sweet. Because they're how many years apart? 16. Wow. 16 years. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So just like on personal note, when my sister was born, I was 13. Yeah. And it felt like we were at different places in our life for so long. Yeah. Until she turned 13, 14. And I had a son Uhhuh, and she's the same age difference. With my son that we like, we are okay. Yep. And now I feel like we're the same. Yeah. She probably doesn't feel like we're the same'cause she's 25. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm almost 40, but yes. It just doesn't feel like there's any gap at all. Yes. Yeah. It's weird how it like melts away. I, it's, I'm starting to feel like that with my 22-year-old. I love having an adult child. Yeah. It's such a cool feeling. And he is so interesting to talk to. And I find myself asking him for advice. It's like all of a sudden he went from being I love that too. My little boy to like this, confidant in many ways. Yeah. So it's interesting transition and I love that too.'cause I'm gonna say this again, but I feel like you,'cause I'm in the newish mom where everybody gives me their tidbits, right? Yeah. Of you're gonna miss this, you're gonna miss this. Yeah. And but then to that point, then you have so many things to look forward to. Yeah. I do think that there, that is really cool to think about my kids being adults. Yes. And like looking forward to and loving that aspect too. Yes. Yeah. I think that's really nice. So I'm gonna stick with the family theme too because, and I've said this on other podcasts before, but it's never been my pink spotlight. But my husband and I we're together for 15 years before we had kids. Yeah. We miss our date nights so much. Yeah. Like we talk about that all the time. Yeah. Like how we're like, we just wanna go to a restaurant sometimes and sit across from each other and talk. Yeah. And we do that so infrequently now. And I always say that it's so hard for us to get a date night on the books, even though we always say we want to, and we always feel great about it when we come back from them, but it's just not practical. It's winter now. We don't wanna go out in the cold at eight 30 after the kids are sleeping and we could go and, then you have to hire somebody, to have So it, it's a lot of it's work's production's. Yes. And then we're tired so we don't want our night to then come back and that, it's, so we have been doing our happy hours and we did another one last night. I love it. Where we go out, it is when there is, so you extend this a little longer there already paid childcare. Awesome. And so it's, we're just taking a couple hours, like even if it's an hour and a half and we go somewhere super close, we don't make a spectacle of it. Yeah. It's not oh, let's make this and go for a drive. It's not the time to go to something that you're really dying to go to and you need a lot of time to experience it. We took an hour and a half yesterday, went to a quick little happy hour down the road, we're in and out, in and hour and a half Uhhuh. And it's just the best. It just, we both came back. I love that. And we like, this is we always. Say we missed the date nights, and this is just like to supplement until we could get back to those where it makes sense for our lives. But and it's a huge thing because even I, we're both entrepreneurs, so we both run our own business. So for us to take time and be like, Hey, can you go now? It's oh, I really should be doing a million other things. But we need to make time for each other. Yeah. And so we do it and it's the best hack. I feel like a quick happy hour. You're in and out. We sat at the bar I love it. Love it. And then by the time you get home, your kids are just getting ready to go down. And then you still have the rest of, we had an hour before they were ready to go down, and so we had, and then we still had our night in. Yeah. And I just, it's literally one of our best like life hacks. And we were sitting there at the bar last night and we were like, this is the best hack. Yes. And we say this every time and then it takes us like, we won't do another one for a month, but it's it's the best. Yeah. No, but it's the best. But you know what? And it makes you better at the work that you're doing. It makes you a better parent, yes. Giving yourself that. It's also not at the end of the day where you're so burnt out. There's still a little liveliness to both of us. We're still talking. I feel at the end of day, I'm, I don't have anything left. I don't wanna talk. I wanna get in my PJs. I wanna be on this sofa. Like I wanna watch a show. I wanna zone out. If you catch me at five. I'm still okay. I guess I left in the tank. I got some juice I could talk to you. So yeah. Seven 30 I'm gonna face mask and that's, don't touch me. That's it. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And I, but I, what I love about it is that you've both recognized that like you matter to each other. Yeah. And that is actually like an important relationship. It was funny, I'll tell you guys this story. So Brian and I, years ago when I was first starting my coaching practice, I was I was doing these ladies nights out and I was teaching like, some of these concepts, like more on what has, actually a lot of it has become the the curriculum design that we've put into the course. Oh, okay. But one of them was taking a look at your life and it was called the Wheel of Life. And then what you were giving to each, like how satisfied you were with each area of your life bucket. And one of them is always your partner, your spouse. And he would say to me,'cause I would model it for, the audience and how to do it. And I would talk through, like really quality time with my husband. I gotta put him back on the radar screen. It's like he's just, yeah. Gal. And he used to say to me, he was like. Because then all of a sudden I would, come home from an event. And I was like, let's do this and let's go here. And he was like, did you make me the example? You're like, I, yeah. You're like, I gotta get back. You using me as a life coach. I do that. I'm sure both of us do that with the podcast. Like it reminds you, you're like, oh, I should put this into practice. Yes. Totally. Hold myself accountable. Totally. Yeah. But thank you so much, Kelly. This was such Yeah. A treat. Awesome and amazing. And I also think this is a really good, this is gonna be very timely for the new year.'cause everybody, this is the last week of 2025 when this airs. And so hopefully everybody has a little bit of downtime. Can like really listen to this. Took in what we said. Yes. If not, go back and re-listen to it. It's got a lot of meat to it, right? When you're setting yourself up for 2026. Yeah. Yes. There's hope. Yes. There's hope and a change. And if you are sitting in this seat and you're like, Ugh, I don't like where I'm at right now. Yeah. What is that called? That's at what? The angsty place. The Ang midlife. Yeah, the midlife place. And that's okay. That's a good place to be. Yeps. Good feeling. That's where growth happens. Love that. So thank you so much. This was great. Yes. And I hope everybody had a happy holiday season. Bye. Bye.