Episode 32: "Pretty Personal" Series – Our Experiences With Postpartum Anxiety & Depression

Episode Description:

Postpartum mental health doesn’t follow one path. In this episode, Christina and Kristina share their raw, very different stories—proof that “baby blues” is only part of the conversation. Whether it shows up as depression, anxiety, or both, these experiences are real, messy, and ongoing.

What We Cover in This Episode:

Defining PPD & PPA

• What postpartum depression (PPD) looks like beyond the “baby blues.”
• What postpartum anxiety (PPA) feels like—racing thoughts, obsessive worry, panic.
• When these struggles can show up, how long they can last, and why they don’t always fit into a neat timeline.

Our Stories

• Kristina: Experienced postpartum anxiety after her second son, and again with her third postpartum season with twins. It’s something she continues to manage daily—it hasn’t gone away, but she’s learned tools to cope.
• Christina: Faced postpartum depression during her second postpartum experience, paired with cyclical anxiety. Therapy and medication became key to navigating symptoms that lasted far beyond the “baby blues.”

👉 We don’t give the entire play-by-play here—just the headlines. To hear how we really lived through it, how it shaped our motherhood, and what’s helped us climb out (and back in, and out again), you’ll have to listen.

💗 Pink Spotlight
Each week, we highlight a moment, product, or practice that’s bringing us joy:

Christina’s Pick: Making a quick gratitude note in her phone at the start and end of the day. Her prompts look like this:

• Morning: “Today, I’m grateful for… / One thing I’m looking forward to is… / A reminder I want to carry with me is…”
• Evening: “A small win from today was… / A moment I want to remember is… / Something I want to let go of before bed is…”

Kristina’s Pick: A practice of pausing to actually sit with hard feelings before moving to change them—giving herself permission to recognize the moment instead of rushing past it.

Your mental health matters as much as your kids’ well-being. Taking care of you is part of taking care of them.

Join the Conversation

📌 Follow us on Instagram: @prettyinpinkagain @christinatarabishy @kristinabontempo
📌 Share this episode with a friend
🎧 Subscribe and leave a review—it helps more women find this show!

Don't forget:  Leave us a written review on Apple Podcasts, DM us your address, and we’ll send you a light pink beaded bracelet with a gold pink flamingo charm—just to say thanks for being here. 💕

Transcript

0:00

I'm Christina and I'm t And this is the Pretty and Pink Again podcast where Motherhood meets rediscovery. Hi. Hi, I just answered a call from Nick on speaker phone. I, and I feel like every time he calls me, I should always warn him ahead of time. Yeah, you're on speaker. You're live. Yeah. You're on speaker. You're live. Everybody. We're rolling. Everybody. Everybody is listening. So I'm gonna share this quick story with our listeners.'cause I'm pretty sure every mother listening has gotten a call like this from her husband. I said, this should have been recorded because it was the most relatable conversation and I was cackling. Cackling. So Nick got outta work early today. He operates and he, when he operates, sometimes he finishes early, depending on if he gets two rooms or whatever. So the takeaway from this is that he wants to help. I'm leaving for a trip with my mom and he's going to be doing some of the pickups. So he wants to help today with the pickups. So our children have gone to the same school for several years. They do the same activities for several years. But I do like most moms pick up, drop offs, whatever. So he calls and he's Hey. Where do I have to be? What do I have to do? I have to go to the office? Nope. Gymnasium. What school? Who's this for? What time? Yeah, what time does it end? So do I drop? I do you have to sign them off? Do I drop and do I sit there for the whole hour and a half? Nope. Nope. You just, you're just gonna drop'em off and then you're gonna leave. What am I gonna do? That's on you, that's on you. It was a list of questions. Lots of questions, but I stayed calm. You did. You were like very polite about it. I was like, know what? Just come home. I'll take care of it. No big deal. Come home, I'll take care of it. And no, he was insisting, he kept saying, no, I wanna do this. I wanna do this. Which I was like, that is. Honestly a forever effort. Even just for stepping up to the plate and trying to, oh yeah, he really deserves a pad back. So I stayed calm. I was very polite. And then what did he say, Christina? He said verbatim. He said, he kind of laughed at himself and he goes, I just reconstructed an elbow, so I should be able to do parent pickup. I should be able to pick a few kids up from school and drop'em at tennis. And I said, honey, I was gonna say that to you, but I didn't wanna sound like a bitch. So I was thinking it. But anyway, so when your husbands try to help, I know. Let them, I know. Be nice. Yep. They will realize how dumb they sound eventually. I know. Because you know what it is. It sounds so easy when you're not doing it, day to day it's just oh, pick a couple of kids up from school. How hard could that be? But it goes back to always what we say about the mental load and all the tracking, the little, the tracking and all the things that we keep have that we've talked about on every episode. Just about all the stuff that's usually on the primary parent, all the mental things that you're keeping track of. And so it's a lot, right? It's a lot. And when someone else steps up, who hasn't maybe done it day to day, they really see how much goes into the day and how much there is to manage. Right. And I appreciated the stepping up and try, trying to help you right. And obviously know what's going on, but also I appreciated. Your conversation, like just the entirety of the conversation, how you both were able to stay so calm and both very respectful of one another. So as an outsider, maybe that was because you were on speakerphone with you. But no, actually I have to say even if you weren't here. Yes, that is typically it's how I communicate with Nick. It's, and because I'm here all the time, me, we have a mutual level of do respect for one another. We do. And I think some of it comes from the early on days. When I transitioned from a working person to a home person taking care of Joseph and Nick went straight into being like a full-time like provider and he would give me these honey do lists on Monday and have and think oh, this is no big deal. She'll do the lists while raising Joseph and I'll go to work. And then when he had to watch Joseph, he was not able to do anything else. So I think that the respect grows over time when they have to do your job. When somebody else has to do your job, they have a higher level of respect for you. I think it, the grass is always greener or things might always seem a lot easier until you're like in it. And there should be such a mutual respect for one another when you like trade positions or when you know, when somebody does step up and sees what you do all of the time. So I do appreciate that and we t and I have actually wanted to chat a lot more about relationships and marriages and just I guess how things ebb and flow and When kids come into the picture and even as they get older? Yeah, as they get older. Because we're at different points with our kids' ages and I guess what we could give to our marriages because of how intense it is at the beginning. But now your kids are busy. So we've wanted to talk about this, like me and you talk about this a lot. Like how could we tackle this conversation without throwing anybody under the bus? Because I feel like it's a tricky one when it's like a one sided, it would only be, from our point of view, I can't get behind the mic unless I'm like giving my honest opinion. And I can't give my honest opinion about a relationship that I'm in with somebody else. Without either them here or them like being on board with what I'm about to share. There's two people in a relationship. And then if you're only getting one point of view, it gets a little tricky. We've heard you guys, because that has been a very hot request. But we're just trying to tackle it very delicately and properly. So that it's fair. And we also are like thinking about, okay, so maybe we have a relationship expert, come on. Another expert. Currently I am struggling with experts because not that I'm struggling with the expert, I'm struggling with the execution. Of the knowledge that is coming from the expert like parenting experts and relationship experts and food experts. I think that if you took the roof off of their house they would even a professional would struggle with the execution of some of these tips and tricks and things that you are supposed to be doing because when stakes are high and emotions are high and you have a temper and you have feelings, it's hard to then follow through. Oh, I agree with that. So I'm just, I wanna have a relationship talk with you, but just to find out like what happens in a household. More or more relatable. More relatable. Like less about the advice or like what works and what doesn't work. Like just what is actually happening in our lives. Like you chose that person to marry. What happens between that day that you choose to marry that person to present day kids later? Why do all women struggle? You know, like Right. Looking at that person. Yeah. Being like, oh my God, I'm not looking at you the same way I am looking at you as I married you, but I wanna, whatever. It seems like that's very common. I, it's so common. I know. I think that what we're gonna save this topic for another day when it is just t and i, because I think we do, we wanna just rehash that a little bit. Yes. But we also wanna have our thoughts together and, yeah. But we'll, but it's a common one that keeps circling that it is like people, a lot of people are asking for it, but another one that people were asking for Yes. Is we've, because I think both of us have touched on things in other episodes when we've had experts on and when we've talked through other things, but. We have both had bouts with postpartum anxiety and postpartum depression, and we've both referenced this, but we've really never dived into each of our experiences when it happened. T obviously went through three pregnancies, has four kids, a set of twins, and I have two. And so we wanted to reintroduce our pretty personal series because we had done this at the beginning where we just unveiled a little bit about ourselves and some struggles that we had and I guess some inspiration for why we started this podcast, right? Was from those series. And so we wanted to talk about this. And I think that. Explaining these years and these emotions and these feelings also is a good segue into how that affects your marriage. For sure. For sure. So we talk about marriage at a later day. I think that it's good to have in the background this background there. Because we know we're not the only ones that deal with this, have dealt with this. And we're gonna also dive into how even when you've identified something you've gotten a formal diagnosis and now you are implementing new systems into your life. It is a daily, yearly, for the rest of your lives. Ebbs and flows, struggles of feelings. For sure. For sure. And we keep referencing that. We feel like we're in a stronger, better place, but we still, we don't have like tens every single day. No. That's not realistic. I'll feel like I'm making such progress in physical mental health, and then all of a sudden I'll have a couple of bad days and it feels like you go a few steps forward and you feel so good, and then 10 steps backwards. And it's so hard to have that realization, but I think that's very normal. Yeah. I think it's good to remind yourself that it's okay. Yeah. You're not always gonna be jet setting ahead. That's why when you look at like your heart is supposed to go like up this down. It's not just supposed to, that's a flat line that's dead. So I think it's like a good reminder. Yeah. But, all right, let's get into it. So we're gonna talk about the difference between postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety. And what are some of the, things associated with it, and some are, what are some of the misconceptions So what exactly is postpartum anxiety and depression? And I guess how do they differ? And how do they overlap and when? And where do they show up? So what I thought was interesting is that they don't necessarily have to show up immediately after you have a baby. Yes. That is very interesting. And that postpartum anxiety, it says can happen like years after. And that's what happened to you. And that's what happened to me. Postpartum depression, usually they flag you for it within those six weeks after you have a baby. Yep. And if you're still continuing on with those baby blues, that's when they categorize you with postpartum depression. But I think if you have both of them together, that can really where it becomes a little murky, because you might be slightly depressed and then it might roll into this anxiety that I was gonna say that pings up months later. Postpartum anxiety is heightened worry racing thoughts, obsessive checking. And it could be obsessing over anything. It could be like obsessing over the schedule. I think just obsessing is the key part there here it says fear of harm to the baby. But I think fear, just fear in general, fear of needs to be highlighted there because that's what, that's those intrusive thoughts that you always hear people mention. I think that's, yeah, that's a huge part of that. And postpartum anxiety may or may not come with depression. So I'll share what, yeah, I'll share what happened with me a little bit. I had my first when I was 26. Mm-hmm. And I had no postpartum depression or anxiety after Joseph. I was like, I felt light as a feather. I was happy to be a mom. I was happy to have him. Life was easy breezy with him. He was easy, baby. We had an easy life. We lived in a small house. Life was so simple. I wish I could go back to those simple days. Then I had my second son. We had a larger home that I had to maintain. I'm just like giving you some of the examples. Yeah. In which I thought my postpartum anxiety was just environmental from Right. And I was like, oh no, I just, it's because I have this baby. Another baby. It's because I have this home. It's because I have this. And what I found out was, is that I didn't necessarily fit the part, I looked calm on the outside. I looked productive. I was getting a lot done. I looked like I was thriving on the outside. Mm-hmm. Because I was doing all of these things that I would usually do. I was like going, I would still go to an exercise class. I would still get my nails and I would still have dinner with my girlfriends. You were functioning, but I was running away from my house is really what I was doing. I was hiding behind doing these things, like functioning'cause I was running away from them.'cause I was a nervous wreck on the inside. Were you having the intrusive thoughts? My thoughts all day were intrusive, were ridiculous. They made absolutely no sense. Tell me what some of'em were. I thought if a balloon popped, I thought I would have a heart attack. So I was in the doctor's office like three times a month. For like for every single thing. Like I thought I was being ail, being strangled. I thought I was having a heart attack, so I would have such bad chest pain. I couldn't catch my breath. I was like, I need a chest x-ray. I'm constantly chronically stuffy. My head is constantly hurting. I must have a brain tumor. Or I was constantly like dizzy and I had vertigo. Like I was having extreme anxiety the doctor diagnosed me with this after having my second son was about like, and how far was that? It was about like eight or nine months after he was born. I was in that office every freaking day. So you were still in the window of that year after second baby? Yep. I was still in the window, but because I was on the outside, I looked like everything was fine. My kids were healthy the house was clean. Everything was in quotations. Good. But I was like dying a slow death on the inside. Were you having any. Intrusive thoughts about the kids and like the fear of the kids.'cause I know the most common one that I always will hear is you're like walking with the baby down the stairs and you have a feeling that you're gonna fall with the baby down the stairs. That's a huge trigger for a lot of women. I never had thoughts about the kids. I had thoughts about myself. I had thoughts like, if I fall down the stairs, who's gonna take care of you? Okay. Those were more my thoughts and they never stopped. And it was very hard because. Like mental health is, was not really like on my forefront. I had never had anxiety before. I was never a depressed person. Even through this whole very dark time in my life, I was still not depressed. I was just so high, like hyper aware, strong. Like I would call my mom and be like, mom, I feel my heartbeat. And she's good, that means you're alive, right? I'm like, no, I don't think you understand. I feel it like through my shirt, like I was having these visceral reactions to what was happening around me. I couldn't catch my breath. So finally my primary care doctor said to me, you have postpartum anxiety. We are going to categorize you as this. You need to get help. We're going to put you on medication. And that really was a tough pill to swallow. Yeah. To have somebody say those words to me because i'm very outspoken and I am very close to my friends and even to my husband. And nobody knew that this was going on with me.'Cause it was a, that's a very internal thing. And I think it was all internal with the anxiety, it's, it is an internal mental thing. I think sometimes with the depression that can also come with some physical symptoms. So that might be easier to detect than maybe postpartum anxiety. But I guess I'm just curious. Yeah. What did you feel, I know this is something that you have struggled with on and off. Yeah. And you've had periods where you felt like you had a better handle on it than others. Do you feel like things help you or hurt you? That's a good question. So my doctor prescribed me medication. And I feel like that took the edge off enough for me to realize that what I was feeling was anxiety. Okay. And I think I had to get like a win under my belt. To know that what I was feeling was anxiety. But the craziest thing of it all is that I was on the medication for a couple of years. I didn't do therapy at this point, and then I got pregnant with the twins and I went off the medication and I knew I had a strong mind and I knew all of those things. All of those crazy thoughts. All of those fears were anxiety, postpartum anxiety. I had the twins I didn't have a nightmare for the twins, and so I was a little sleep deprived with the twins. I was doing all the nighttime stuff. And once that film lifted with the twins, all, everything came back again. And it was like a exact repeat of what happened with Vincent happened again, like twofold with the twins, like muscle memory. It happened again and it was worse and it was like 10 times worse. Do you feel like, did you know, because you were having a second. Out of it. Do you feel like, because you knew you had come out of it the first time, were you like hopeful or were you like, no, this is too now this is, no, I was mad at myself.'cause I was like, what? How did this happen? Again? S is wrong with you. You know what this is? This is, your head is spinning because you're in this position, but yet I still was not mentally strong enough. I think that just defines why mental health is an ongoing struggle to fix it. I still couldn't fix it, Christina. So years went by with me having this internal struggle. And again, nobody would know because everybody looks at me and thinks, oh, she's got her head together. Which I do,'cause I'm still productive. I'm still doing what I have to do. I'm still showing up for my kids and for my husband. But it took up so much space in my mind to do. To do this stuff and it's so fatiguing, it was so fatiguing. So the last straw for me was my physical symptoms where I would get such a stomach ache that I would make myself ill, like I was so nervous every day from the second I woke up in the morning until the second I went to bed what is gonna happen today? And that is such a horrible way to live. It is, yeah. Thinking every day what is gonna go down today? What is gonna go down today? And I went back on the medication and I started doing cognitive behavioral therapy. Yeah. And those two coupled together have improved my life so much. And I don't wanna say it's changed my life because this is still an ever going thing. Every single day. I can't just wake up and be like, Nope, I'm good now forever, because that's not true. That would be lying to you. So I have to. Practice every single day. Things that keep me on track. And that is just, the cold hard truth. Yep. And it's hard to think about the old you, because the old me wasn't like this. The old me woke up without a care in the world. The new me wakes up and cares deeply about every single thing that's gonna happen that day. And I can't change that. I know it's a very hard shift. And I think that's my version of postpartum anxiety, because none of this occurred until I was a mom. And I don't wanna blame my children because it's not their fault and it's not. Them that makes me anxious. It's everything else. It's weird. It's like just everything together now in this new life that we have that has created this within me, it is, it's a huge shift for anybody to go through. It's such a huge lifestyle change. And it was interesting hearing you say that. It's all part of growing up too, right? Like it's a huge shift to get married, to have a family, to have a house, to have all of these responsibilities, to, to be juggling work, to be juggling a social life, to be juggling health of other people around you. It's a lot. And so I think for anybody, it's a lot and I think it's very relatable to hear that it's, a lot of the times it isn't the actual kids that you bring into the world. It's like everything else that goes along with it and trying to adjust in a crazy world that we live in now. So that was more so I guess my, mine is more postpartum. Anxiety. Anxiety. I didn't have postpartum depression. I didn't have baby blues. I was always like pretty jovial and happy. I, did you experience baby Blues at all? No. You didn't? No. Okay, so I know that, so that's I know that baby blues, I remember being like a lot of people experienced baby blues, and I think that's why sometimes the postpartum depression is a little bit more hidden as well, because it's very natural for women to experience baby blues. So baby blues, by definition, are described as mood swings, tearfulness, emotional ups and downs, that many mothers experience within the first few days of giving birth. That's what it is. However, they're considered normal and short term because of the big hormonal shift, physical and emotional shift that happens postpartum. But. Within one to two weeks they should subside. Okay. It's when it persists. After that six week window. And so my experience, I had two extremely different postpartum experiences. My first, I definitely experienced some baby blues, I think, which I talked about on my original pretty personal series where I talked about the infertility struggles and that kind of being coupled with being in the pandemic and all of that. There was a lot going on before I got pregnant. And then I had a pregnancy complication during my first pregnancy. And so I think when my son got here, I was so relieved that. Yes, I did experience some baby blues, but they really felt very physical right? It was just like coming off of the birth, and I felt oh okay, wow. That was just a lot, but I don't think I really felt them mentally as much. Then I did the second time around, the first time, I remember those first couple weeks. It's just an adjustment period. You're not sleeping a lot. It's just like a huge shift. So I remember feeling some anxiety and kind of baby blues around the nighttime. I felt like the night would start coming and I would be like, okay. Okay, we're bracing for a rockier night, or, an interrupted night of sleep. But I remember that subsiding. Yeah. Within the first, I would probably say the first month, I felt like that it subsided once we were on a schedule with him and everything just clicked into place and I went back to work. I was feeling really good. I went back to exercise. I felt like pretty normal for just having a baby. And I felt, after you had Leo, it was like Christina and Leo and to, yeah. I just, I feel back, like he just followed back. Yeah. We don't like the phrase bounce back. We don't like the phrase bounce back, but I really do feel like I bounced back and I felt pretty, quote unquote, normal for the most part. Oh, it's Romeo. Yeah. He chooses you over me. Yep. But with my second postpartum experience, I, it was night and day different. I knew the baby blues were there except they never left. It was just. Okay. Months went by. I remember getting flagged at my six week appointment, and it was also a huge night and day experience in terms of sleep deprivation. So with my first, with my son, I don't think I ever knew what true sleep deprivation was. I had what I would now refer to as interrupted sleep. Yes, I would get up in the middle of the night. He needed to be fed. I would feed him. I would burp him, I would change him. He would go back to sleep. And so would you. I would go back to sleep and then maybe a couple hours later, do it again. We might start the day or we might do it again. And it was very predictable and it was just very interrupted. And as time went on, those wake up were less and less, and I started getting a full night's sleep and we had our evenings and life returned to normal. And so with my second. That was not the case, which was my daughter. That was not the case. I experienced what I now know was like true sleep deprivation for me. I'm sure everybody has a different threshold, but there were so many nights where I didn't get a wink of sleep. And then since I had a toddler at home, my son and daughter are only like 20 ish months apart. I had a very young toddler at home, and even though I did have people around to help me, I was still the mom and I felt like everybody needed me. So I never even gave myself like permission to go offline in any way. So there were so many days where I wouldn't give myself a break. Even if I had it available, I wouldn't for guilt reasons, but that's also one of these symptoms associated with postpartum depression and anxiety that you can't. You are unable to turn your mind off. Yeah. So you couldn't, even if you did have a whole slew of people there that were saying to you, Christina, detach, I'm here. And I'm here. Go sleep. You actually chemically could not, and I just wanna point that out to you. That is so that you Yep. Cannot, like I had twins, but I had no problem saying to my 18-year-old sister, can you come over and do the night shift?'Cause I haven't slept in a week. That's how I was with my f. And I went down to the basement and I took my one night of sleep. Yep. And I woke up refreshed. Yep. You physically were unable to turn your brain off. It was so crazy because were spinning even with my mom, like my mom was so instrumental in both of my postpartum experiences, my mom would come even with my son and she would take over and my son didn't really even wake up that much, but she would come over and alleviate both of us and take the night shift and we were able to get a full night of sleep. She would come even for my daughter and. I still couldn't sleep. It was like, and also my circadian rhythm was so thrown off with this postpartum experience that if I had a window to sleep, if it was during the middle of the day, if it was somebody giving me the full night, I couldn't, you couldn't take it. It was insane. I felt insane, and because when you're so tired and you finally have an opportunity to sleep and you can't sleep, then that also started this like cycle of anxiety. Because while I was so sleep deprived and so sad, and so exhausted and so depleted, my mind wouldn't turn off. Yep. And so I just couldn't. I, there was so much anxiety that was there. And that was why I couldn't sleep. So I think because I was dealing with postpartum depression, there was also like anxious things sneaking in there. So it was a cycle. Yeah. It's like one led to the other. Yes. And that heightened worry racing thoughts. Obsessive checking, obsessive planning. Just obsessive over everything. Do you guys remember when I told you the story? I don't remember what episode it was in, but I think it was the letting go of control episode. I had a point where my mom was coming, we had a couple of family weddings and so my mom had to be with the kids like overnight while we were at the wedding. And I remember giving her this list of what to do overnight with my daughter when she wakes up because I was crazy in control of, or I thought I was, but what's crazy is that it wasn't even working. It wasn't even oh, do this and it works. It was do this so that it might work. And I remember it would be like pat the baby on the back Yeah. A couple of times and give her the bke and then, lay her down, but only on this side, and then turn her o it was so specific walk out and make sure the nightlight is only on it. It was just so hyper controlled, right? That it. Like looking back on it, I remember like seeing the note in my phone and being like, oh my God. When your mom read that note, was she flagged? Yeah. I think that it was like, was that something that flagged her? Oh gee, for sure Christina is not okay. Okay. Like I'm saying to you, it wasn't even working. It wasn't even oh, do this and you'll have a very successful night. It was like, just do this and we don't even know if it's gonna work. You know what I mean? Yeah. It was just one of those things. I just think, but I think it's a good example of how when you have these two things Yeah. You have these impulsive, irrational thought. Irrational. Yeah. They were, and you're trying to control situations that are uncontrollable, and so I think that the first step for me was once we got through the nine months of my daughter not sleeping. It was, that was like the first kind of fog that got lifted. When I started to experience like a true real night of sleep when it was a little bit more predictable and I could actually go to sleep and not worry that she was gonna wake up or if she did wake up, I would know how to handle the situation if she woke up it, that was like the first kind of like breath of fresh air in this experience. So once you were able to sleep a little bit some of this cloud started to lift only just a little bit. Yep. But were the people around you noticing. Like, all right. Christina's not herself for sure. I think that, first of all, I was very honest even at my six week postpartum checkup that I was already feeling like the baby blues had not subsided at that point. So my doctor had flagged it immediately she had recommended medication, but I honestly was very wary at that point to take any medication. I at that point was hoping that I would just start to lift out of it on my own. And you were hoping it would fix itself. I was really hoping that it would just, it was just taking me a little bit longer and I knew that the sleep had a lot to do with that. So again, I was really holding on hope that it would just fix itself. And I would say that as we started approaching like the 4, 5, 6 month mark and stuff, still really was. Not only not fixing itself, it was getting worse. Worse, it was because it had just been so prolonged at this point and I was still not sleeping yet. So I think that was just it. It was us. It was cyclical. At this point, it, I was not on any sort of like regular schedule. I wasn't eating well, I wasn't treating my body well. I wasn't able to take care of myself. So I think that it was very evident to people close around me that things were off for sure. I was barely able to have a conversation. I was barely working it. It was just, you were a part of that. Like it was, I wasn't right. I know and I had never said this to you before. I didn't know what to say to you. I didn't know what to do because I was afraid that anything I said or did would make it worse. Because I think when you're in a situation like this, nobody can pull you out of it. No. Which is the scary part because you can be mad at the people around you for not helping you, but yet the same time, you are the only one that can know I need to be pulled out of this. I know. It's a lot of, it's a lot of responsibility for you to put on yourself. It is To have to be the one to be like, help me. Yeah. And if you think about that, it's a lot of. Responsibility to put on yourself after you've just gone through a very like life altering event. Yeah. And really you're the only one that can flag and say, no, I'm really not okay. And also I wanna do something about not being okay. It's really just, it's a mental health problem. So if you think about any time that there's depression, addiction, that's always what they say, right? It's like you're the one that has to raise your hand and say I'm not okay and I need help. And so I think it is one of those things where I'm sure a lot of people around me noticed people had said things to me, but there was really nothing that could be done. But what kind of things would people say? People were asking like, they knew I wasn't, they knew I wasn't, right. I have talked about this, like I physically didn't look okay. I was very thin. But what would you say? I would say, I know I'm not okay. And I would say that I don't know how to help myself. Like people would offer, my family, my friends, what do you need? What could I do? And I was like, I don't know what you could do. Because what I need is sleep and I need to take care of myself. And even if people are offering, like we just said, if somebody would offer to come and take a night shift at my house, I still wasn't able, you could not accept that. I couldn't accept it. I couldn't accept the help. So I think really what it took was me getting to a point where I had to accept the help and I wanted to accept the help. I think some of it was me just continuing to take it on, and not really stopping and not prioritizing myself. And if I even allowed myself to think that way, there was immediate guilt and shame associated with it, which. It is sad to think about, in hindsight, but it really was the reality of what was happening to me. So can you pinpoint a time in your life where you felt like you were taking steps in the right direction? Yeah. I think it was around the six month postpartum mark where I said, okay, I want to go on medication. And the medication. And I did not agree with each other. I actually started to it. It's not for everybody. It's not for everybody. It's not for everybody. I'm a very sensitive person to medication, which I knew, which is why I held off on it at the beginning. But it did allow me to get some sleep because even though my daughter wasn't sleeping, I did go on an antidepressant and it made me. Very tired but it actually turned my mind off. Which was maybe, was that what you needed at that time to get through this hard part? I still was having interrupted sleep, but I started to get a little bit of okay I'm tired. So I was resting a little bit more, I think mentally. No sleep To interrupted sleep. Yes. Which a big difference. Which was difference. Like it was an improvement. And then I would say that kind of allowed me to at least start thinking a different way of just okay, I wanna do something about this. Maybe it's not the medication that's gonna be the answer. But I started to be like, I have to take control of this. And it at least allowed me to make steps in the right direction. And then I think that naturally when my daughter did start sleeping through the night. Which was huge on me. That just gave me the night. It also gave me like an evening. It gave me you got a routine. I got a routine. And you thrive on a routine. Yes. And so once I had, once I knew I was gonna have an evening,'cause my daughter was somebody who those are less spiraling thoughts once you know you're gonna have, do you see what I'm trying to get at? Yes. So what, what was happening to me again, back to the sleep, which I know I was harping on so much, but what was happening was my daughter would do one of three things, and I could laugh about this now. I would put her to bed and she wouldn't stay asleep, right? So that would kill my evening. Okay. Leo's asleep. She's asleep. I get to go decompress on the sofa with my husband. We get to watch a show, talk, eat dinner, have normalcy before going to bed. So if she didn't fall asleep, that prevented that from happening, which was like red flag number one. Red flag number two would be she would wake up in the middle of the night, so that would be also terrible because that would mean I would be up for in hopes would be one hour. It also could be several hours. She might not go back to sleep. It might be 5, 5 30 by the time she goes back to sleep. And now I can't go back to sleep'cause my son's gonna wake up soon so that would be like a horrendous night of sleep. Or she would wake up very early. Like her day would start at four or something. And so that would really kill me for the next day. So it was one of those three things was going on at all times. So once everything started regulating itself and I was able to have an evening, and then most of the time I would be able to sleep through the night or I would be able to like sleep in a little bit until he woke up. Everything started to fall into place. Like my body started to fall into place. I was hungry at the right times because I was actually sleeping. So I would wake up and I would want breakfast, and then at nighttime I would be able to eat a dinner. And so it, it sounds so silly, but it was like once things started getting yeah, into a rhythm again, when you weren't able to do simple things again, very simple things because you weren't able to sit and eat dinner because by the time dinner time was coming, you were already anxious about the sleepless night that was gonna be, and I was in survival mode ahead of you. And I think that what's important to recognize in any of these disorders is that when you have these intrusive, spiraling thoughts, it doesn't matter what they are. They take up all of your space. They take up all of the space, and then you're not prepared to do the hard things. Like you're not a weak person. You can do hard things. But you cannot do hard things when you constantly just have nonsense, just ruminating about your mind, taking over everything. Mm-hmm. And I think if I had to give my definition of what postpartum depression and anxiety is, it would be that Yes, I agree with that. I agree with that. And I think that when you have a newborn, there are so many unpredictables. Mm-hmm. And so many unknowns. And so many fears. And we also grew up, or millennials, we grew up in this age of perfectionism when everything needs to fit into a box and look a certain way and sound a certain way. And so we have that in the back of our mind. I've been very honest with you that I was not personally raised like that. My mom and I, my mom didn't really talk, use that language around me and my sisters like, you have to be good girls, quiet girls. See, not heard. But yet it was still the culture. Mm-hmm. In which I was brought up in. So now you know, you're trying to raise kids and you're trying to provide them organic, healthy meals and have things look good, sound good, feel good. It's a lot of pressure. Lot of pressure. Yes. It's a lot of Yes. Pressure. Agree. And you identify as somebody who is a little bit anxious. Perfection. And output. And output. And it has suiting you, it has suited you so well and so many areas of your life. But I think in motherhood, that trait is to your detriment. It's toxic in motherhood. It's a toxic trait. It's so true in motherhood. I, it's so true. I think that when you learn how to roll with it. That is probably the greatest gift you could give yourself and mother. Yep. And I, I totally don't you say agree. I totally agree. And I think that some of it does just'cause I wanna give hope to anybody Yes. Who's feeling this way and this, I think that this can come in any form. It doesn't have to be in motherhood. It could just be like that you're in a down place at the moment. Yeah. So it doesn't have to always relate back to motherhood, but there always will be a moment that clicks, where you're just like, you snap out of it and you, a lot of the times have to wait until you recognize that. And that's the hardest part of it. Yeah. And it's just one of those things where once you recognize it and you wanna do something about it. You're gonna do something about it. Yeah. And so once I started getting a little bit of sleep, and once I started to prioritize taking care of myself, I was able to think clearer and I was able to then make the next move. It's like just like a list, right? And I am like a list person. It's okay, once you do this, once you do A, then you can do B. And then once you do B, you can do C and D. And you know it, it's like it just, everything starts to click into place. And once things started to click into place, then I was able to ask for help and receive it and be okay with it. I think it's good that you are referencing the list to the A, B, C, and D, because if you are still in it, if you are still not sleeping and unwell and you try to skip a few steps, you're gonna end up, you can't. You can't. And sometimes. This is a time game. It's a waiting game. It's a waiting game. And that time in between does not feel good. But I think if you just recognize sometimes that this is gonna be a hard time. Yep. And you will get on the other side of it. And then when you get on the other side of it, something else can come your way. Maybe you'll be more equipped for that next thing. But you have to just take it step by step. You have to take it a day at a time. It's like a snowball in the, in a good way. In a good way. Where it's okay, things will start to build and things start working because you're on the right path and things start clicking back into place. It's really hard when you're going through it. And honestly, I wish that I could be one of those people that say'cause my mantra is this is temporary. But when I was in it. It didn't matter that it was temporary, it was what was happening right now and it's hard to live in that temporary space. If you're absolutely miserable and you're struggling and you also hope that this would be like the happiest time of your life, know it's a really hard guilt. That's back to that guilt and that pressure and that society telling you these should be the best days. Yeah, technically they should be the best days, right? But if you are unwell, they're gonna be really hard days. They are, yeah. And you know what? Maybe they'll be better days ahead and they are they are. And I think that now that I am on the other side, and we did say this at the beginning, where sometimes you take a steps forward and you feel so proud and then you'll have a setback where you feel, I think that's just part of life, right? Yeah. Where it's just things ebb and flow and that's okay. You also have to learn to embrace that and ride with it and roll with it. But I think you're getting really good at it. Even right now in like this new phase that you're in with preschool drop off and work. And a little one. That's a huge change Yeah. That you've endured this past month and I think you're handling it really well. I thank you and I'm proud of you for even thank you for saying that. No, it's true. And I think that this could have been another thing that could have set you back. Yeah. Back 20 paces. Yeah. But it hasn't. You're like, oh, okay. It's practice. This is hard, right? Yep. Yep. This is new, but you can do it. I can do it. Like That's really important that you've these hard times that you've endured, have prepared you for, I don't wanna say these hard times now, but Right. New times. Uncomfortable times. Yeah. I think that also, just remembering that every postpartum experience could be different. Yeah. They are. Ours looks different. And it's interesting that both of us had a. Easier first postpartum experience, and then harder, second or third postpartum experiences. But that could also be true for the opposite, where you might have a hard postpartum experience, especially like if you always, this could be a whole other podcast episode, but like the adjustment from zero to one kids, to one, to two, to th you know, two, right? Two and beyond. Like people have different experiences. And so if you had a hard first postpartum experience, it doesn't mean that you're gonna have a second hard time experience. And so it really is just, it's different, but it's different for everybody. It's different for everybody. Like closest friends had postpartum with the first one. And didn't know she had it until very, very far along. And her doctor flagged her for her second one. So she had therapy immediately, like right after she Wow. Delivered the second baby. They started her on Zoom.'cause they knew therapy. They had such a close watch to her and I really respect the way they treated her through that second pregnancy because they treated it very it was delicate, important and delicate. And I don't think everybody has access to it and sometimes even when you have access to it, it's still doesn't make it better. Yeah. So I guess, but my next question would be, and this is rhetorical, but what would, what do you say to somebody if. You know that somebody that you love is going through something like this, or you're unsure if they are, but something seems off yeah. I think that's a very good question because I, and I even admitted, I didn't know what to say to you. Because I thought anything that I was gonna say was gonna make it worse. And the last thing you wanna do is put another, you don't wanna task somebody with something and you also don't wanna give something a name if somebody's not ready to hear it. Like a label. I see you're going through a hard time. Do you think you could have baby blues? Or I need to get you out of this house. I've been there. I need to get you outta here. You were one of those people for me where you physically came to my house, you physically put the baby in the car and you physically put the stroller in the car. We were like, do you remember? We were like in, we were at the coffee shop trying to figure out how to get the stroll. You like threw it in the car, didn't even care if it collapsed. You were like, we're getting out of the house. This is important. So sometimes you just need to try to step up and take over. I know. I think when you're trying to offer somebody something, you can't ask, right? Sometimes you have to just do right? Not what can I get you from Starbucks? Here's the Starbucks or what can I get you from Chopped? Here is the lunch. Or sometimes you have to like. Start there with the person. And just offer a nice, just do I like that Nice caring act, and just do. Sometimes just the doing is just enough for the person on the receiving end to maybe open up a little bit to be like, okay, that person sees me. Maybe they see I'm having a hard time. Maybe now I can tell them. You know what I mean? Yep. For sure. So I guess that would be my advice, is just try to do something. And then I think that this is so common, and then it's another conversation that I want to normalize, like I wish was normalized, just that this is very common if you are experiencing this, if you know somebody who you think might be experiencing this, it shouldn't be a shameful thing. No. And it should be one of those things that. Is normalized. It's another one of those, I keep using the word like pathetic things that goes on in our healthcare where it's overlooked and there's not enough information on it and there's not enough normalization on it. But we hope that having these conversations like gets you more comfortable with recognizing and opening yourself up and having these conversations with your friends and family. But if you do suspect that you have had one of these things, currently have one of these issues, please don't wait to talk about it. You can talk about it with your doctor. You could talk about it with your friends and family, right? Very well said. Very well said. Oh, and also, there's no shame in your game. No. I'm a happy person. I'm a vibrant, happy person. I love life. I am a lover, a true lover of life. And I dealt with this. I still deal, I still deal with intrusive thoughts and anxiety. Yep. But you don't have to be like a mopey person or a sad person to have this. You could be happy and ha and be peppy and have this affect you. It doesn't, you don't have to fit in a box to have habits. It's, that is so true and so well said. And I think that if I have anything that I can give away or take away, or if I can share anything with a listener, is that you can work through this, you can work past this. I think different tools work for different people. Some people it is medication, some people it is the cognitive behavioral therapy. To help retrain your thought thoughts. Sometimes it's just like what Christina said, time and waiting, step by step. You were in it for the long game. Yep. I to I That is so well said. And I think that we can transition into our pink spotlight from here because we wanted to keep these on theme too. Yeah. With like maybe something that you're doing or something that has helped you during this process. So our pink spotlight is our like little mantra or tip or recommendation, something that you would tell your friend this week. What's going well? What's working for you? And. Mine this week is actually something that I've put into practice and I can't say that I've been, it's not consistent, but I figured out a way to hopefully make it a little bit more consistent. But I'm somebody that needs to practice gratitude. I don't wanna say I'm not grateful for things. I am grateful for things, but sometimes I have to remind myself that I'm grateful for things because I can get, especially since dealing with postpartum depression, I can get myself all worked up about all the negative things. And I need to remind myself of all of the positive things that I do have and how lucky I am in my life. And i've used the gratitude journal before, like I've bought one off of Amazon where I like physically write. I think that there's something so magical about like pen to paper and writing it down, but I'm also in a very that's not practical stage of my life. I'm not always at my nightstand where I can pull out my gratitude journal and sometimes I wanna dump my brain, right? Like I just wanna I wanna just write it down. So I made a notes page on my phone. I'm a big list person because that's what works for you. That's what works for me. And that's also means that I can do my gratitude at the beginning of the day and at the end of the day, wherever I am. When you're feeling grateful, when you're feeling inspired, when I have, you can share that into your notes page you have so I access to it. Yep. So I wrote, I made a separate little note on my phone and it's called Gratitude. And I have a morning and an evening section, and I have under the morning it says, today, I am grateful for, and I feel that out will share something. I wanna hear something you're grateful for. I'll you what I wrote. Today. So I said today I'm grateful for the ability to check on my health because I did end up taking our own advice on this podcast and I did a full hormone panel and GI Map through Holistic Health Code. And I'm waiting for the results Tott blood work done. I cannot wait. I have to do a urine test and a GI map, so it's extensive. So it's gonna take me the next couple of weeks to get through all of those things. But I had just done the blood work. And so I'm very thankful that I have the ability to check on my health and i'm looking forward to knowing those results. And then it says one thing that I'm looking forward to and we're having like a beautiful, sunny forecast the next couple of days. So I'm just very grateful for the beautiful weather. The kids and I are outside all the time and it's just been really nice. I need that too, and a reminder that I want to carry with me today. So those are my three for the morning, and I had said to remind myself that everything is temporary. I had been feeling like very rundown. I thought I was getting sick and I started to spiral oh no. But I started to feel better and I was like, okay, that's a good reminder. Like everything is temporary, even if it's you're sick. Sick. It's couple days, it's right. It's, you'll get through it. It's temporary. Because you've gotten sick before. Yep. And you've gotten better and you've come outta the other side of it. You've come outta the other side. There is power in hard things happening to you. Yep. Yep. And then in the evening, a moment that made me smile today, so this was from last night. I said I actually was holding Layla in my arms after her nighttime routine. Like she has her milk when we're reading a book. And I was, this is actually funny that this was last night.'cause I didn't know what we were gonna talk about today, but I was rocking her after we were reading her book. And I like happened to look down at her and I was like, wow. First of all, she has gotten so big. She is. She is so big. Almost. She's 20. Is she 21 months? She's so big. Something around there. She's almost two. She's almost two. So she has just gotten so big. Like I looked down at her and I was like, you look like a little girl. It's crazy. She does. And I thought to myself, I used to be so scared of her bedtime because I didn't know what the night was gonna bring. And. Now it's literally the best part of my day. And I didn't even know what we were gonna talk about today. So that's just interesting that happened to my, it was meant to be. That was meant to be. It was meant to be. And then I share one small win I had for the day. So yesterday, last night, I ha I had shared that all my projects for work were approved. Over the last couple of weeks I've been doing like a lot of content creation and I had to submit a lot of stuff for projects coming up. Yeah, you've been, and I got like the green check of okay, everything's good to go. And so I was just relieved for that work kind of accomplishment. And then it says, tonight I'm grateful for extra unwind time because because my husband had done my son's bedtime last night. Leo's bedtime. So I got to put Layla to bed and then who I like extra time was, I had extra time. He put Leo to bed. Leo goes to bed a little bit later than her. Oh, I see what you're saying. So I got like a little bit of extra unwind time. Then he came down, we got unwind time, but I started doing this. A couple of weeks ago and I've been able to keep it in my phone. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put my little format in the show notes. You can copy and paste it into your notes. Love, if you wanna do gratitude journal. I love what a great thing to practice and I'm not great at it like I do ha it is something I have to do, but I also keep it running so I don't delete it. I just put the date and then I just keep, and it's journaling. Two, you're showing yourself what you and I can look back like now. I was just able to look back and see what I wrote. So sometimes you'll don't show gratitude until something bad happens. Yes. And you're like, oh my God. I'm so grateful for the air in my lungs and the fact that I can go for this walk and why am I being so hard on myself for not getting to my bar class and lifting those heavy weights? I should just be lucky that I can walk. If you see somebody who you can't walk. Yep. So I think getting into a practice just every day, just showing these simple things that you're grateful for. I think is a good reminder of you putting one foot in front of the other. I totally agree. And this makes it nice and easy and so I don't make it like, oh, if I don't do it in the morning where I'm upstairs by my nightstand, this makes it like you had said, like it's at any point of the day when you have a second to fill it out. Even I think one of the days I did two in, I did one in the afternoon and then one a few hours later for the same day. But it's like yeah. You were feeling inspired. I think when you're any new routine, you have to work it into your day and work for you. Exactly. So this makes it nice and easy so you guys can do it too. Aws, what about you's? So I guess mine is a little bit more of a mantra, okay. That I've said to myself over and over again when I wasn't feeling well and I didn't know what it was called at the time, but I was just kept saying I'm not feeling well. I don't feel well. I don't feel right. I don't like this. I think that if you don't feel right. I think it's more important for you to recognize how you feel. That's like the first step. Recognize how you feel. And then the second part that I wanna emphasize is that you can change it. And I always tell myself, you have the power to change this before you change it. You have to sit in it though. So I just want to share that message with you. Because every time now that I'm feeling unwell, that's like my feeling. I sit in the feeling okay, I don't feel well, and then after I've sat in it, then I tell myself, but you can change it. So you can't change it right away. So if I'm sick and I have a cold. Okay. You're sick. You have a cold, recognize how you're feeling. Okay. Sit in that feeling in it. Yep. Instead of immediately jumping to fix it, just sit in that for a minute and then tell yourself. But you have the power to change it. This won't last forever. This is temporary. Yeah. And I think that having power and knowing that. Has really helped me and makes it easier to think Yeah, because anything like I could be hangry. Okay. I'm going to eat now. I can fix it. I can change it, but I think the first step is oh, I'm hungry. Like just simple feelings. Simple. I know. You have to sit in them for a minute. Yeah. Because I think when you're like a cat on a hot stove, like jumping to the next thing, then you never address how you're feeling. And then you never give yourself permission to understand and appreciate that you can change. So I think that second part often gets forgotten. Because these feelings are not permanent. You can overcome them and you can change them. I like that. So I think that's my little Oh, that's good tip. That I am so helpful that I'm living in, yeah. Right now. I love that. Guys, it's been so nice. I know we've had a lot of guests. It was me and t all summer, and then we had a bunch of guests the last couple of weeks, so it was nice to sit and the next coming weeks, we have guests coming up too. So yes, we have some guests coming up. We've already filmed them, we've interviewed them. We filmed with Christina's good friend Maria Roberts. Who, if you don't follow her, first of all, she's so cute. She's adorable. She is at Maria Roberts on Instagram, and so we said this at the beginning of the episode, but you've probably sent one of her mom humor reels to one of your friends or one of the, your friends have sent them to you because she's viral all the time because she's so relatable and so funny, and it's just, we always say it's like she's one of us, yeah. And so we're so excited. That's a really lighthearted conversation, and she's so interesting and has such an interesting backstory on how she got into this kind of field and of content creation. So that's gonna be a really fun one. Yeah. And then after that we have Dr. Fiona Keho, who is a neuropsychologist, and she talks about. A DHD versus mom brain and a DHD and adolescent. So like in our children and how it presents and what that neuropsychological evaluation looks like versus what, when it's gone, when it's gone undiagnosed for maybe our generation and how it manifests in adulthood and what sort of the differences between having that cloudy mom brain, versus when those thoughts should subside and. The other things stay and when it is actually an official diagnosis. Yeah. So we have two really great conversations. Those interviews were very different. I know. Very different. Very different, but both really good ones. Yep. And we wanna hear from you. We have, we've been getting such great feedback from you guys. You continue to text us and DM US episode ideas. But if you have any episode ideas or any guests that you guys want us to interview Yeah, we will make it happen. We're gonna track'em down. Yeah. Let us know. We'll make it happen. So let us know and it was so great to catch up with you guys and we will see you next week. See you next week. Bye. Bye.