Episode 26: Friendships in Every Season (from Middle School to Motherhood) & How Friendships Evolve

Episode Description:

Female friendships can be magical, messy, and deeply meaningful. But they also evolve—and sometimes dissolve. In this episode, we’re digging into the unique dynamics of women’s friendships: what makes them thrive, what causes them to fade, and how we’ve seen our own relationships change over the years.

We talk about:

• The friendship qualities we’re most drawn to in this season of life
• Why one-on-one connections can feel deeper than group dynamics
• How our friendships have shifted from middle school to motherhood
• The difference between social friends and close friends—and why we need both
• Handling moments when you feel left out
• What loyalty really looks like (and what it’s not)
• How to be intentional about cultivating stronger, healthier friendships now

We also share personal reflections on how motherhood, marriage, and career have reshaped our circles—and why we’ve learned to value depth and ease over quantity.

💗 Pink Spotlight
Each week, we highlight a moment, product, or practice that’s bringing us joy:

Christina’s Pink Spotlight
Getting back into reading again (don’t get too excited—she’s only made it through two books this summer), but swapping 15–20 minutes of scrolling for a few chapters before bed has been a game-changer for relaxing at night.

Kristina’s Pink Spotlight
A look-for-less Gucci sandal from Amazon with the perfect kitten heel—because can we all collectively agree to never wear stilettos again?

Links & Resources Mentioned:

• Fighting for Our Friendships by Danielle Bayard Jackson
• Danielle’s “Infinities” framework: Symmetry – Support – Secrecy

Question for You:
What season of friendship are you in right now—and who are the people who make you feel most like yourself?

Join the Conversation

📌 Follow us on Instagram: @prettyinpinkagain @christinatarabishy @kristinabontempo
📌 Share this episode with a friend
🎧 Subscribe and leave a review—it helps more women find this show!

Don't forget:  Leave us a written review on Apple Podcasts, DM us your address, and we’ll send you a light pink beaded bracelet with a gold pink flamingo charm—just to say thanks for being here. 💕

Transcript

0:00

I'm Christina. And I'm T, and this is the Pretty and Pink Again podcast where motherhood meets rediscovery. Today on the Pretty and Pink Again podcast, we are talking all things female friendship. Specifically what does and doesn't feel good. The red flags to the gut checks and the moments when you wonder, is it just me or is this friendship not serving me anymore? And then what's next? From the differences between one-on-one dynamics and the group vibes. This episode is all about turning into what your body and what your brain, or trying to tell you when something feels off. Because knowing what you wanna walk away from is just as important as knowing what you wanna walk towards. Let's go. Hello. Hello. Hey, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. How are you? Good. I am so excited about this episode because I feel like we've had this one brewing Yeah. For a little while. And we keep saying that we're in like the season of just me and you here and I feel like this has just been, this is such a good one for a me and you conversation. It is. There's a lot of me and you. Yeah. Which is really nice. I know there has been so much and this We'll get into some of that. Yes, for sure. But I like our dyad. I know. Me too. This has been great. It's good. I know we had a long time where we just got to catch up and really talk about the things that we wanted to talk about. But this was also very requested from the Pippa's is to dive a little bit more into female friendships. And I feel like we can go so many places with that. Sure. But I loved what you wanted to talk about. Yeah. I recently read the book by Danielle Bayer Jackson, I read the audio version and I feel like I should have bought the hard copy'cause I would've kept it almost like an encyclopedia with Post-it notes. But she touches upon all these different types of female friendships and what serves you? What serves you at different times in your life. And she interviews all these different women. And what's so interesting is women statistically do better in what's called a dyad, which means two people. But yet women always find themselves in group settings. Interesting. And in these different groups that you form throughout your life dynamics change. And in those groups, that's when you start to feel these bad feelings, like loneliness, intimidation, am I less than, we're not equals, are they have a better profession. All this comparison then ensues. So I was very inspired by, the book. When I was researching for this podcast over like all of the female friendships that I've had in my life, I know from like elementary school to middle school to high school, to college, to then insert, I met Nick and he became my best friend. And then. My mom friends, which carries me to present day. I know, I feel like when you sent me,'cause we like to do little guides just so that we can have, a little information on what we're gonna chat about and sometimes we see those in advance of the episode that we're filming. And when t sent this over to me, I was like, so you journaled I was like, you did an exercise here. This was a therapy exercise. I think I did. I think I did a therapy exercise. I love it. And I'm excited to get into this and I'm not, I'm typically not long-winded. No, you're not. I usually like straight into the point. I don't need a long time to let things marinate. Usually I I feel it. I think it, I say it. And then this side was like, oh, wait a second. Let me go back a little bit. Because a lot of themes occur Yeah. Over time. For sure. And I think that friendships, especially as we can say it two ways, right? We could say it either through motherhood, which is a huge transition. A huge life transition. And you can also just say, as we get older, right? Things change and there's a lot of layers there of things that we can unpack for female friendships. And so I'm gonna let you take the lead on this one because what you had written down was just very intriguing. So when I look at my friends, and I'm gonna ask you, when you look at your friends, what are some common threads do you think, A, you have commonalities between all of your friends, or do you think that all of your friends are completely different and share different characteristics? I think a little of both, and I think it depends on where the friendship originated from. So I think, okay. Good answer. I have a lot of friendships, which I've mentioned here before, that. Were due to something. So I have friendships growing up. Obviously the girls that I grew up with from my hometown, I had mentioned that we either danced or did theater or all of the above together. So there was like that sort of commonality and so a shared experience together. A shared experience later on. But then we don't do that anymore. And then my college group of girlfriends, we all danced together. That's a group. Okay. And then I, so again, another shared experience. And then I had girls that I lived with. And so again, another shared experience. And those were all of like my bridesmaids, those were girls that I've known for The better part of it's probably 20 years at this point. So I've had all of those friendships for 20 plus years, which is crazy to say that. Because of the, those friendships started so early in life. I don't know if I could say I was looking for specific qualities in people. Because a lot of those friendships just came about from those shared experiences and then lasted through the test of time, through they've just lasted through seasons of time. But now I think that I have certain qualities that I definitely look for in friendships, in a friendship. So you had said in your notes that you thought that this season of motherhood was like a lonely time For sure. For friendships for you. Do you think that it's because it was harder for you to make friends in this season? I think. Part of that was because I had kids a little bit later in life. So a lot of my So who you were surrounded by weren't like your people? Because I wasn't in that shared experience for a long time. If I look at things, I was one of the last over most groups of people that I know. Mm-hmm. I was one of the last people to enter motherhood. Yes. So I did feel probably from the time I was about 30 to 35, that as people started entering that chapter, I was feeling a little bit disconnected and left behind by some of those friendships. Because I wasn't experiencing the same thing that those people were experiencing. And then even new people that I had met in my thirties. If they were moms when I met them and I was not yet it, there was just a little bit of a disconnect. It didn't mean that there wasn't a friendship that could be had. Me and you were at completely different life stages, but we just weren't able to bond on that level quite yet. Right. We had other things that we bonded over. I guess the point that I'm like fishing for here is that I think there's two ways to make a friendship. Stick and be tacky and it's these shared experiences being one big pillar For sure. And I'll, I'll share with you my sequence of my, are my friendships, but some of my friendships that I sort of opposite of you. And I think it's just because of the timeline in my age of when I had kids are actually my friendships that have formed during motherhood because it was such a vulnerable time in my life and I was surrounded by. Women who were in it with me, and it really bonded us together. We shared a lot of time together. We exchanged like our deepest, darkest secrets like that bonded us together. And like this shared experience, I think really made us stick for sure., That's one thing that I noticed that really stuck out when I was dissecting all of the female friendships or things that make things stick or these shared experiences and. Now what I'm seeing is that as my kids are getting a little older and they still have little kids, but I'm not doing as many things with my friends anymore because my kids are older. I'm doing more things with my kids. And like they have their own lives now. So it's harder and blend Totally. And the lives together. Me and Nick are trying to throw our time into the six of us being this nuclear family. So how I'm continuing to cultivate my friendships are these catch ups, whether it's like a phone call or a coffee or things like that. So we are not sharing the same experiences, but I'm still trying to make an effort to catch up and find out about each other's. Keep in touch, experience. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. But it's, I think that it shift, it becomes hard. It's hard to shift through different phases and time when you enter motherhood. It's things. I think feels two different ways. It feels like time stands still and then it also feels like time flies and you can't even catch up with what season you're in. And so I feel like even in the short time that I've become a mom, while you've been a mom already I think that I've seen the shift of you, like just of your kids going from being very little and you're very connected to everything going on with your kids, to now your kids are growing and really starting to form their own lives, their own friendships. Yes. And now you're trying to keep up with them, right? I have these like four friends that I became tight with when Joseph was born. And we don't really do things as much anymore because all, we live in different towns. All of us live in different towns. Our, we all met at like music class. Our kids all have popped off. And summer boys, some are girls, so they're not all friends together, but we all still, love and adore each other. And we were all catching up the other day what is everybody doing? We never see each other. Who are you even hanging out with? Who are you with? Who are you with? And we all said collectively we spend the most time with our husbands and our children. Because our kids are getting older, they wanna be social, they wanna have plans. And we are, we're trying to keep them. Yeah. To keep them in and hold them back. And hold them close. But if we didn't have that conversation, one. Make an assumption like, oh, this friend has pulled back from me. This friend doesn't wanna be around me. This friend is too busy for me. This friend is too. Insert whatever. It's a good point, you know, thought you want to have, but when I think of it like that my feelings aren't as hurt and I don't feel as sensitive when I have other friends in my life pull away a little bit for sure. Because I know that they're replacing me with something else. And I think that I'm probably not one of those friends that you're talking about, like from your point of view. But I'm probably one of those friends that other people could say that about where it's oh, she has pulled back a little bit. You feel like you're pulling away a little bit. Okay.'cause I have entered this chapter of my kids are very small and i'm not in the exact season where you're saying that you're just following your kids around. We're the ones still in the driver's seat with the kids, as far as toting them around and doing things together. But we are very much in a family era, and I think that it would be easy for people to look at me from the outside and say, look, where has she been? I really haven't, it's not that I've put myself out with other people. It's not like you could say, oh, she's just been with this group of people more. We really have just been with our family and we've been trying to connect and, build that foundation and weeks pass. And I feel like sometimes we don't socialize and see many people. And so it's just interesting hearing it from the other side where you're saying that, yeah it's, I guess it's easy to always look and assume something negative and it's usually not right. It's usually not, but. There also is some truth to it I think because I think I've been in situations where somebody has maybe made, rubbed me the wrong way and it's when people rub me the wrong way, I really think it's more about me than it is about them. Honestly. I think with a lot of reflection when somebody does something to me that I don't like, it's more me. Like I might see my, something I don't like in myself, in them, or I, like I don't think it's always the other person. It's not. But I think that's okay. I think that it's okay to you always use the word antennas or like red flags. Yeah. It's easy. I think it's a good thing to sometimes have that wherewithal about yourself, right? Yeah. To just be like, something seems off but what I would do in that situation is probably pull back a little. Right. So here be a mix of things. So here we are in a season where you're pulling back to be close to your family, which is a good thing. And then at the same time, you're pulling back when people piss you off. Yeah. And insert friend B who doesn't really know where you're at. It's true. No wonder. Sometimes female friendships can be very tricky. They're very complicated. And we did have some kind of request to dissect, I guess even that the pulling back of friendships. Yep. And how. That's okay. We always say that there's a season for certain things. Yep. I think and my a season and a reason. A season and a reason. And I also think that two of the things that have really stuck out to me that are like mantras for my entire life right now are quality over quantity. I keep saying that theme in every sense. I know it's like in wardrobe, in skincare, in friendships, in just in everything. I feel like that's like my motto right now, which was so different from what I used to be. I was more of like a more is more. More is more as more. I was totally a more is more person and now I'm a very less is more person. And then the other thing that I recite to myself all the time, which I know I've said on this podcast is everything doesn't have to be a thing all of the time. Like sometimes there's just seasons for things like we keep saying and things don't need to end in some like big dramatic way or they might not even need to end at all. It's just that things phase in and out and. I know even with certain friendships, what I hope that I have with my friendships is that we allow each other to do that, and that it doesn't necessarily mean, oh, is she mad at me? Did something happen? It's just no. We're in a season where I can't give as much of myself to this as I used to for the past 20 years. And you do what you can, but everybody's so stretched so thin right now, it's so hard to do that. And I think just being okay with that. So like it's something that I recite to myself, like it doesn't have to be a thing. I feel somebody's pulling back from me a little bit, unless I know that I did something wrong or I'm worried that something may have been misconstrued a certain way or something. I'm just allowing people to do that without making it a thing for myself. And I hope that the friendships that I still have from these 20 years that I keep referencing also allow the same of me, where it's okay if there's like push and pull, there's phasing in and out. And I remember my mom had said when she had a group of friends growing up from childhood, and when they all got married and had kids, they all scattered, right? Because everybody is living in different places. Everybody became a mother at different times of their life and really as their kids. Grew up. Mm-hmm. They reconnected. They always stayed in touch, but they were able to reconnect and get themselves back to that place. But it's because they never had a falling out. It was just that they left, there was nothing to sex was allowance. There was allowance that people can go out and live their lives and come back. And I think that's really important in friendships at this stage is like allowing people to go out, have their own lives, whether that's with family, whether that's with other friendships that of the season of life that they're in now. And know that you're secure enough in your friendship where that if time permits that you can come back to each other in that same way that you'll pick up like nothing happened. Right. And I think that's where really strong friendships. I agree. And having that foundation is really important. I agree. I think. I've already had this season with my childhood friends and I'll like even throw myself under the bus. And so when I was in elementary school, I met my friends that I'm friends with now currently. When I was in middle school, I wanted to be something that I wasn't, I don't even know what that was. I wanted to be cool. I wanted to be like on the varsity soccer team. I wanted to be friends with people who did not wanna be friends with me. And the girls that were always nice to me that were never nasty to me or who I'm friends with now. And I feel like they allowed me to like try new things, like when I went to a different high school and they made new friends in high school, but they always allowed me back in. It's not like they shut the door to me. And then same thing with college. We went off to college. Everybody, all of us made new friends in college. We all visited each other in college, but it wasn't like the same because we all had our own little college friend crew. But when we came back home, it was us again. And then I became a mom first. And so I made all these new mom friends or these friends from town. Yeah. Different life. And now that I feel like I, my seasons are more stable, who I tend to gravitate back to are that these friends that I have always allowed me to grow. They are. And I may not, that's perfect Word share. I may not share face to face time with them as often because they don't live in my town. We don't have children the exact same age. Our lives are not woven into each other. But I think that is the healthiest type of friend I do too. One from a little bit of afar where you could catch up with, reminisce with, laugh with. Mm-hmm. And share new current ex, experiences with, For sure. I completely agree with that. The girls, especially my childhood friends, I feel the exact same way. We've allowed each other that space to go and have our own lives, but then when we reconnect the few times a year we are very diligent about making sure we do get the quality time. Together. It's no time has passed and I feel like it will be that way forever because we've always been like that. We've always allowed each other to go out, have other friend groups, and then come back. It's that secure. That like attachment, right? It's okay. You know that they're home for you. And you'll come back and I think that what's happening to me is I am, I think that as I am in this season, I'm realizing that if I'm not getting that space and that allowance, to me it's a very big red flag. So let's then talk about some of the red flag relationships. Groups are tricky because when you leave someplace feeling worse about yourself, I think that is my biggest sign of a red flag. And that doesn't always necessarily mean that it's the other people in the group. It might just be more. A me thing, like I'm not good for that group. If you don't feel seen or heard or that you're not good enough. Also, it's normal as women when we get together in groups, there's gossip and sometimes gossip can leave you not feeling a group. Great. And that can be another sign if you notice that. The group thrives on exclusion or competition and who's invited and who's not, and who's who, and who's what, and who wore it better. That could be a sign Lastly, and most importantly for me is this group performative? Is it just about the look like the social media, the status the Instagram post is that what's more important than the actual connection of the people within the group? So for me, those are some of like my personal red flags for a group. Oh, groups are tough because I think, like you had said at the beginning, I think that groups can't, I have a few different groups and some of them are different sizes. I think the size of the group also matters for sure. Groups can be very tricky because I think that like dynamic wise. You need a balance of, I think that's why sometimes groups can get a little awkward, right? It's like you need a balance of personalities for a group to work. We have an intruder. What's up? We usually have one of the girls, but this time it was one of the boys, there's also just many more personalities to like work in between. And I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like the smaller and the more intimate the group is, usually I feel like that's, it's less likely that things break off and there's like separate groups within the group. You know what I mean? So I think when there's a bigger group, then sometimes little groups form off of the bigger group. I feel like my temperature check for. If a group is just a group fun thing, or if a group is like five or six girls that I actually really care deeply for. Mm-hmm. As if I have sidebar conversations with each girl. One-on-one when we're not doing the big group thing. And if I don't, then I know that this is like a social group thing, and if I'm not invited to that social group thing then I'm okay with it. And that's how I measure the group thing versus the one-on-one thing. I love that. So I actually think that we should dissect when you're not invited to something. Because I think that this is something that every person listening to this, and probably every person that we ever have met in our lives has felt that sting before. Yes, of course. I want to try to start thinking this way because I think the way that I was taught when I was younger, and I know we talked on this about our girl on girl thing. Was just my mom trying to console me. Like you didn't get invited to the sleepover because they were only allowed to have 10 people there. That was healthy or May, and then maybe they would see me be hurt again, and they were like, oh, F those girls, those aren't even your friends, and then e, every time it gets a little bit meaner and meaner, so something that I'm trying to do now when I don't get invited to something, I try to think like, why? Why am I bothered by this? Am I bothered because I'm very close to the host and she has left me out maybe on purpose or accidentally, or am I close to the. Invitees, and that's why I feel left out because my friends are going to something and I'm not included in that. Do you feel like it's a little easier to swallow one or the other if you're not invited I think it sucks no matter what I think you cannot sit here and tell me that it doesn't sting. Of course, it stings to be left out. It always stings to be left out. It always st stinks to be left out. But I think the way I think of being left out of something is if my friends are invited to something and maybe I'm not close to the person who invited them. I think that's an easier pill to swallow because I can look at that and say I'm not friendly with the host enough, so that would make sense that I'm not invited to that. Sure. No, I agree. But I think that if you are friends with the host or if you think you're friends with the host and then you're not invited to something. That stings more to me. Like I think that's where I'm like, how did I get left out of that? I also think that's a very reasonable, completely valid thing to feel. Sure. I think that saying, oh, don't let that bother you, or, I, I think that yes, there's certain situations, like you're saying at the beginning of this segment where, yes, if there's a size of something, you're say, oh, I could only invite so many people. There's only so many spots available for something. Again, that's something easier to swallow than if it's just a party and it's, the invites are endless and somehow you weren't on the guest list. Like that's a painful thing. I think that if it's a pattern, it's an also an okay thing to flag that and then revisit that and say, why? Why is this a pattern? What is going on? I don't think it's a necessarily like a bad thing to just. Have your antennas on that way and be like, what is going on here? I need to get to the bottom of this because, or it, I don't think that anybody should be in that shitty feeling, or do you feel like you don't always have to get to the bottom of it? I don't know if invites or as linear as that, maybe you lower your expectations then Yes. Where you have to, maybe you don't have to get to the bottom of it. Like you don't have to make it a thing with that person, but I need to know where I stand with somebody. So if I'm constantly getting left out by the same person or the same people, then I'm gonna take that as okay, so I know where I stand with you. That's okay. If it's not worth making a thing, if it's, obviously, if it's somebody that you were close with and you're hurt by it, I think you do make it a thing. It's just so that you can place that person and so maybe you can lower your expectations moving forward. Like we're not that close or they clearly have a problem with me, so I'm gonna step back that's okay too. And that's okay too. So I guess something that you, I don't think I wanna do in a situation like that is bring it up to other people. I didn't get invited, I wasn't included. Mm-hmm. I don't wanna be like Complainy or Graspy or draw attention to that because I feel like that. Why not?'cause I just feel like that sort of sounds annoying. I think that if my first instinct is to bring it up with a friend that was invited to the party and not the host, I think that I probably shouldn't have been invited to the party to begin with. That's, yes I do agree with that, and I think that's a good gut check. And then I think the best thing to do next is absolutely nothing. Don't bring it up to anybody and just be cordial and just know your place going forward. But what if you're really, what if the person is a good friend of yours that didn't invite? Then I think the healthy thing to do is to let the host know one-on-one, if you're close enough with the host then you should be close enough to know, or to be able to say to them like, what happened? Hey, you're having this thing like. I love you. I would've loved to have been there. What? Why? And if you're close enough to them, they'll tell you why. And if you did, so if I did something shitty, hopefully they would tell me. Or if it's oh, I'm sorry, or this is a, this group or whatever, you can get the truth. But I think making it a thing is when you are then give the silent treatment, pull away are nasty, all the things. I think like a very healthy. Viewpoint on that is we could look at me and you, right? And like you have, you were my first friend that I met moving into the town that we currently live in. So you introduced me to a lot of people, but I don't necessarily look at you and think that I have to be doing every single thing that you're doing. Yeah. Because you're not a psychopath. Because, but I do think that, and people that are like that, yeah. I, but I think that's a real thing. Need get some space. I think that's a real thing. Yeah. I don't do well with that. I know you don't do well with that. I don don't do well with that either. Oh my God. I put up my, I know. And I push away. I know, I don't like to be suffocated, but I think that's something that, yeah, I agree. I think that's something that, I don't think that quality is something that you mature out of. I think that quality is usually something that you have or you don't have. It's that ability to like not latch or to latch onto people. I. Feel again, that's like a tricky subject, that to me is just not something that I do well with. Yeah. I ha I feel like I at least know my place. So if you are going to do something with other friends that I know, I don't expect an invitation to that. I would never look at that and say, how could you go and do something with so and so without me? I, that would be weird. It would, but I feel like that's a real thing. But that occur. That's a conflict that occurs here. That's a conflict. That happens. That occurs a lot, I feel like, because, and that's to the point of you what you were saying before, which is somebody might bring something up to you, Hey, why wasn't I invited to this? Some of it might be valid. And then some of it might be very invalid. Some of it might be just latching on and looking for drama. Yeah. We're all guilty of it. Yeah. I think at one point in our lives drama doesn't always need to be like such a negative word. Like women are always mixed up with the words drama and feelings and this and that, but it's just rooted in our relationships. Like we deeply care for our friends. We have these lives that are like full of things and experiences and we connect over sharing our experiences. Mm-hmm. And if you wanna call that drama, we'll then call it drama. No, but it's not always bad. No. Think that it's just like passion I think that, again, I, some of the growth that I have done since becoming a mom is become a way more sensitive person. It's confusing because I've become more sensitive, but then I've also, my bullshit tolerance is so low. Low. Yeah. My is so low. Do you think you're it's a weird mix always. Do you think you were always sensitive though? I think I was always sensitive about certain things, but I think that I could let a lot roll off me a lot faster. Like a lot faster than I do now. I'm, I'm sensitive now, but then I'm also insensitive now. It's a weird, it's a very weird combination and I can only blame motherhood for that because I do think motherhood is just a very complicated. Transition period of your life where you've gone through so much. We keep saying that the closest thing to it is adolescence is going back to adolescence. So I know we talked a lot about like older friendships or maybe friendships that we've had throughout other seasons of our life. But another topic that people ask about a lot from us is building new friendships. We did talk about the ways you can go about building new friendships. Mm-hmm. You've done such a phenomenal job of that. I've just tagged along and met a lot of your friends. But I guess in the next season as you are meeting new people. How do you feel about that? Or do you look for certain things? So I think as we enter our forties, we have our kids, we have our husbands, time is limited, we have our work. And cultivating and maintaining those friendships can be hard So I think there's two pillars here. The maintenance, like how do I maintain? And I shared earlier, sometimes I maintain now by phone calls on my walks, check-ins or check-ins. Because I can't physically see my friends. So I do the check-ins. But I think that doing things that are bigger than you are how I like to make friends. And I think like for you, you talk about your college days.'cause you were on this dance team and you have these really special friends.'cause you had these shared things and I think. At any age, you can become part of some type of group that's bigger than you. Whether that's through philanthropy, right? And doing fundraising. That's something that's bigger than you. Whether that's the tennis team that I plan, that's something that's bigger than me. That's like a shared experience. Whether that's like a workout class that I like to go to, it's like taking the fundamentals back and you're saying, what, how did you meet people in earlier in life? And you're trying to emulate that in some way Because I do think that friendships form in some of the best ways Yes. By doing that, that you said that. Perfectly. So even, don't you feel like this podcast has brought us So close. So much closer. Yeah. We are such special friends. This is something special that we have together. When you, When you do something, I loved that phrase of beyond you, yes. I think that it pulls you back and it really can create such an amazing friendship. So I think that goes back to one of our, I think it was our first episode, which was Finding your flock. And that was one of your tips. And I think that's such a huge takeaway is don't look past the simplicity of that. Find something that you like to do volunteer somewhere. I do think that's like such an easy way, but are there like certain things that you look for in friendships? So I don't know if I look for this, but if I look at my friends what I am drawn to, and this is purely accidental because I don't. I was like thinking about who my close friends are, like who I talk to, who, like honestly, if I open up my phone right now mm-hmm. and I look at my call log, who is on my call log. My friends are Type A. Very hardworking. Incredibly driven. Usually married with four kids. Like multiple kids. Yeah. Lots of kids. Lot hands in, like lots of different pots. At their core, good humans. And that is what I am currently, attracted to. Yeah, I like that too. And I also think that when people possess qualities like that, they don't put so much light on me. Because they have so many other things that they are into you've said that, but that you don't like to be the center and you don't like to be the only thing connecting. Like you need a little bit of breathing room in your friendships. And so you don't like the latching and you don't like the, you don't like to be the center of that friend. I don't know what to do with it. It's too much. I don't know how, I don't know how to play that role. And. And I know I've latched in certain friendships because I needed help. I needed guidance. When Joseph was entering elementary school, I remember latching and being like, I don't know what to do. And I'm sure that was probably very annoying for that friend that had to play that role. I think we all latch accidentally, right? Intentionally, I'm not sure. But being latched like, time is just not my vibe, right?'cause I don't know how to play that role. That's, I think that, that's very interesting. I am, what about you? I'm very tell similar. I think if you had asked me five years ago what I was looking for, or what types of qualities I was drawn to I'm sure that they would be semi similar, but probably different in a lot of ways, I think. A little softer. I think right now what I value most is ease and loyalty and warmth. And I don't. Ever want to feel like I'm being spoken about badly behind closed doors? I don't like that feeling. I have absolutely no tolerance for it right now. So if I'm getting that vibe, I'm pulling back immediately. I've been like really needing like friends with a sense of humor. A little bit of like sense humor, lightheartedness. You have humor, you have lightheartedness. Thank you. That's why I love you so much. I feel like we're always laughing. I really am drawn to people that are very kind without being competitive. That is like my, I think star, asterisk, like kind without being competitive and also who show up when it matters. And I don't only mean that in a one-sided thing, but I mean that in a good thing too. Like I think that. Where things have really shown for me over the last probably 15 ish years since I've had different businesses that are very public facing, the people who support you when you're putting yourself out there and not the ghosts. The people who don't support from afar. I think that I will cheer somebody on very publicly and I want the same back for me. Do you think that people are afraid to do that out in the public? Like you're used to being out in the public, right? Yeah. Not everybody is right. I'm just playing devil's advocate do you think that, but I don't think that it needs to be a public thing, so maybe I should correct myself. Okay. It doesn't need to be a public thing, but just cheer you on Hey, you're doing this publicly, and I don't, and I just mean that's a blanket statement of just. Supporting support. Okay. And just being, and I say the phrase like, be a cheerleader for your friends, because that's what I think that you need at this point in life, right? Yeah. Is life is really hard and there's just so much that goes into it. It's so complicated. And I think that when you have a friends around you that just, you know that you can be yourself around and that they're just like proud to be friends with you, but not in a way that serves them. So you're looking for that reciprocity. Yes. You're not necessary two way streets, two way street. Sometimes when I think of like reciprocity, I think of it in this negative way like I do for you and you do for me. And that reminds me of when I got married and like the Italian list where you had to keep track of who gave how much money to you and who came. And we don't give a penny more. I don't think of it that way. It's just collectively as a group of friends. You give, I give happily with ease. Yeah. And I, and support. I think that the, yes, I think the word is just being supportive. And that could be public facing. That could just be not public facing, but just that you know that someone has your back and will cheer you on, but will also hear you complain and hear your positive stories. We talked about that too. It's so important that you have friendships that will listen to you complain, but will also listen to your wins. I think that is like the most important thing, not just when the chips are down. Yes. I think it's so easy to bond over bad things. And negative. And negativity and things like that. But, and it's harder to bond over positivity and cheering people on because competition gets in the way feeling less than gets in the way. There's just so many emotions that can get in a way. So when you just have a friendship that's not rooted in any of that bullshit it's imperative right now. In this chapter of life. So there's these three, pillars that I was talking about before, from the book. From the book. And she calls them these three affinities, and the first one is symmetry. And so when she talks about symmetry, it's like when I meet you oh my God. Same. Oh my God. Same. We have all these things in common. This is so great. This is bonding us together. So what that sort of does is it eliminates competition, right? So then what happens when one person is playing more of a superior role, that ensues. Maybe there's not that sameness anymore, and that could be really tricky. And then that can be tricky for a friendship. The next one that she talks about is support. When you're getting support from a friend, if you are in a really hard time in your life, like for me, when I had my twins and people aren't checking on you because you're not asking for help, that could cause a fallout. When I had my twins, I was very vocal that I needed help and my friends came, and that brought me close to them. But I think I could have very easily been like no, no, no, no. I'm good. I'm good. Everybody leave me alone. And then drove a wedge there, but instead I allowed myself support. And that was like something that she talks about is support. And then the last one that she talks about is secrecy. And when you share things with somebody, you make that person feel special. For sure. Like I am telling just you this, you are holding onto special information and that bonds you to them. I think that's what we've talked about so many times. And it's interesting to hear it as the word secrecy.'cause it's not what I would like. These words sound so ation, they do symmetry support secrecy. Yes. But when you like open them up, yeah, you break them down and they're, but we've talked about that actually. Opening up and letting people in. Yes. To your thoughts and feelings. Yes. And what power that has. It's an immediate talk about that. It is, and it's something that it can connect you and it can really change your life because I think it also allows other people to know how you're feeling, number one, which is obvious, but it also allows people to hold you accountable for things. So if you do wanna make a change, if you need something in some way, if you need support from people, if you're open and you let them into these inner secrets, if you wanna call them, that it, I think it just creates a bond. I agree. So what do you do then, if you're not somebody who is really good at hooking people? I think that motherhood has changed me so much where I wasn't a very vocal person. If you even think about the things that I'm sitting in this chair talking about, I wouldn't have done that unless I entered this chapter and went through the things that I went through. How did you become somebody who then now does speak up? Because what it did was maybe it was a means to an end for you when you became a mom, but what it also has done now is. Connected you with other women and other people, and you're growing these bo, you're creating these bonds over you speaking up. I think that so much of it is other things that we've talked about before, which is sometimes there's a pivotal moment, right? That happens in your life where you're like, Ugh, like one thing will rock you. And it's just I need to change from this. And sometimes it's a gradual shift over time. I think for me it seems like it was a. Pivotal moment, but it was really a very gradual shift over time, and it just came to a head where I cannot live in this sheltered, not sharing type of space anymore. I needed to open up to get myself healthy and to the next level. Like I needed to let people in a little bit more. I needed that support. So the walls had to come down. And so I think that's just, it was like an evolution of that. It wasn't something that just instantly happened. I'm sure for some people and some experiences, one thing will happen that just rocks them and then they shift from that point. But I think either way, when you get to that point, so you let your walls down Yeah. And looked for support. Yeah. And then, and by doing so, it almost started giving, you almost started supporting people more for sure, because you let the walls down, let people in. And then by that you were exchanging for sure. And doing back for others. For sure. And I think that's created bonds and friendships that came out of nowhere. And that's why I think for a long time I wore the age of the friendship as so strong. So I've said this, the 20 year friendships, it's like a badge of honor. I have these 20 year friendships. We've gone through so many things together. And I'm not saying that those aren't valuable anymore. I'm saying that yes, I have those, but I've also been able to develop friendships that came on quickly from shared experiences because I'm in a different place in my life now, where now I'm being very open, I'm being very vulnerable, and friendships have come in and are just as strong. That's like a good thing. And I think that's a very positive message. And if anybody's feeling a certain way, because female friendships can be tricky. And when you're in different chapters of your life, it can be tricky. And you it can feel very isolating. And I don't think that you have to sit there and worry that you don't have length of time. I haven't known this person for very long. If you're in a shared experience and you're vulnerable and you're open with people, you would be so amazed at how fast real bonds can form. I completely agree. So we wanna talk a little bit about sisters. Yes. Because this is where we differ, this is where we differ. This is where we differ. So I have two sisters. Just sisters. You're one of three. I am one of three. I just have sisters. And I just have a brother, a younger brother. Sisters teach you a lot. Yes. And Sisters teach you how to fight. Teach Sisters teach you how. To have true, healthy competition. Because it's only healthy. You're not competing over, at least in my sister experience, we never were competing over boyfriends or who was prettier or who was this, or who had the better outfits. None of that mattered. My clothes didn't belong to me. They belonged to the three of us was the group. Yeah, there was, everything was communal. Everything was a, everything was communal. Everything was a group. We were the Anderson sisters, nobody was pitted against each other. That was my like upbringing with sisters. And so when you go back to this list, this symmetry, like same for the most part, right? Like same. I was the oldest, Nicole was the middle, Marissa was the youngest. So there was some differentiation. There, but we were still all the same. We all had this, we all came from the same house. We all had the same amount of money given to us. We all, everything was Yeah. Same experiences. Yeah. Equal same experiences, support, everybody supported each other. Everybody showed up for each other's games like. Everybody now watches each other's kids, there's equal support and secrecy. Oh my God. Yeah. We all talk shit about each other. There's two against one, one against two, but then everybody makes up. But that's interesting because I'm not from that world. And I am curious to know if other people would agree with me, because I know other people would agree with you. I feel like you can tell. I'm a hothead. I feel like you can tell when people are from like a sister dynamic because I think that they're different with their friends. And I also think that people, oh my god, I know. I don't bad. It's if you grow up with sisters and you're, you just said you fight and then you make up. And there's just, it's just kind. Sometimes you don't even make up sometimes don. It's just yelling. It's say you can blow up and then just go on about your day. Yeah. But when you don't grow up in that world, to me. That's very foreign. That's, so I'm somebody who I don't roll like that. I can, but it's not in my nature because I didn't grow up with that sort of same experience. So when I have friends that have sisters, it's a very different I think our probably, what's the word? Like our conflict resolution is very different. Like I, I need the discussion, I need a little something extra. I can't just have someone blow up at me or act complete a-hole and then turn around and then be like what happened? Everything's fine. It's no, it's not fine for me. And it's because I didn't grow up with that. I didn't, I grew up with probably a much more, probably formal conflict resolution than I feel like sisters just let things roll off. They're just like, whatever. And then you move on, right? And it's just very different. So I think that's very. Interesting. And also very funny'cause I think that's like a different Yeah. Experience for sure. It is a much different experience much, and I'm not saying that this is healthy the way that we communicate, blow up, up, whatever. No, but it's just different. And you would probably look at somebody like me saying I need the conflict resolution. We need to talk about these things. And you'd probably be like, whatever, I'm past it. It's over. Like it's done. But if you look at that and then you look at like groups of friends, like some are gonna handle things like you, some need the extra alright, can we just not really make this a thing? But can we just finish this off? Finish it off. That's what it is. And then we also have somebody like me that I'm like. What are we even talking about? And you're like, you just yelled at me like, I did. Did I just do that? And now that it's like being brought to my attention how I am very confrontational and I think it, I say it, I scream it. I'm like because this has happened to you and shit. Yes, this happened to you. Not do this. Yeah, I need to keep my cool. But it was just always how I communicated with my sisters, right? You took my car, I'm gonna take your car. Like whatever. Then that was just carried over into, right into current day. It is. It is very funny. I think that's a very funny dynamic and I think that it's something that you just have to be. Sensitive, if that's the word, or just understand if someone didn't grow up that way, like I understand that sisters would have a very different dynamic than how I had a dynamic with a sibling, right? Because they're just, and I'm sure that there are some siblings where it just didn't matter, where it's like, it could be a boy and a girl having a similar situation. Totally. But I also think that there's just something to be said about. Multiple females. It's just different. It is different. I feel different. Feel like even with my two, it's gonna be a very different situation. Different than it is if there was multiple girls. I know. I have two sisters and I have a sister-in-law. I'm very close with all three of them. Mm-hmm. I'm just as close with Gina now as I am with my two sisters, who I'm very close too. And Gina is so funny'cause she grew up with a brother. With a brother. So similar to you guys. So Gina, when I first met her, or even not even first met her, but even now I'm like, you don't know how to share, do you? And she's no, I never knew how to share. Now sharing is something you're supposed to like teach your 2-year-old when they go to the library oh, your turn, my turn. She never learned how to share because she didn't have, because it's different. You don't have, she never had to share anything. We would, my brother and I would, obviously we grew up sharing toys and stuff, but when you, but then when you get to an age, you're not sharing clothes. You're not really sharing makeup and sh sharing that sort of it's different. But even sharing, she even didn't have to learn how to share time. Right. Because it was like. Girl goes with mom, boy goes with dad. Like, when we were growing up, like all three of us had to share our time with our mom. All three of us had to fight different for time with our dad. Like different, I know we had, I had to learn how to share everything. Time, cars, money, everything. That could be a whole podcast episode, because I think that's fascinating. I know, but I think that is just a fascinating topic of the dynamics between siblings and how different that can be. And it's something that you don't wanna admit that, you don't wanna admit that it's different, but it is. And now you have to share, share friends than what happens when you have to share friend. I know, right? Like that. It's a little tricky too. Sharing friends, right? Yep. That's so interesting. Has that ever happened to you where you have a friend and you feel like now you have to share the friend and you're like, Ugh, this is annoying. No, because I don't think that's, I don't latch like that. Yeah. I don't mind sharing friends in that way. Okay. But I am, I can relate to what you said about Gina because I'm somebody who probably, I've had to, I've remember poor Gina, she doesn't even listen to this podcast. I know it's Cordy, but it's okay. But I remember even being in college, right? And like I had. Friends with sisters. Everybody that I lived with in college all had sisters. And I remember them like raiding my clothes, right? And I was like whoa. What a minute. Wait a minute. What is happening? Wait minute, what's going on? And it was just second nature to them because they all grew up with sister. I'm literally just doing like a mental note of I didn't think I realized this until you said it. But then I was like, walls up. Wait a minute. No. Like that. That's not how I roll. I don't know. I became fine with it, but it wasn't like something that I was So you did become fine with it? Yeah, because it's, that's a hard, that's a hard thing to it. Transition. I became fine with it. I don't love it, but I still feel and. It's funny. I know even growing up or now even having Layla and I'm like, this girl, she goes for all my stuff. Like already she's one and a half. She'll go in my closet and take out my shoes, or she'll go in my suitcase and start going through stuff. Oh, cute. And I find myself like, ugh. Oh my God. Like I no. And I'm like, oh, she is gonna be like 16 in my closet taking all my things and I'm just gonna have to roll with it. Oh, she's so cute. I just found a picture of Ava when she was 18 months old and she had,'cause I always am wearing bracelets. And she was wearing mag, she was wearing magnet tiles like the magnet tiles that they play with. Yep. They were like in the shape of squares and she was wearing a stack of magnet tiles. Tiles make bracelets on her arm to look like they were bracelets. It's so cute. It's really very cute. I love cute it. Oh my goodness. Those girls. I feel like we could keep going and going with this because this, I feel like we keep saying friendships, especially female friendships are so layered and there's so much going into it. I feel like we have other topics that we can definitely expand on. If you guys have anything specific that you wanna talk about mm-hmm. please let us know. You can send us a text and we can dive into a little bit more of female friendships.'cause we haven't done a ton of female friendship discussion. No, and I really feel. We're just scratching the surface here. I mean, Ultimately when I think about my female friendships, I wanna create experiences without guilt. Attached to it. I don't wanna feel bad about my experiences that I have with people that I love. Because ultimately that's who my friends are. People that I love to share time and space with. Yep. I love that. We'll wrap up, even though we could keep going mm-hmm. for probably four more hours. But we're gonna close out with our ending segment, which is our pink spotlight, our person, place thing, tip, mantra. Mm-hmm. Anything that's making life a little bit better this week. I'll share mine. Okay. Because I, it's a little bit of a practice that I've been doing. Oh. And getting back into something that I used to do all the time. And that's reading and. I can't sit there and say that I've gone through a ton of different books because I really haven't, I have a very small window of time to read, but I've been trying to read instead of scroll at night. Okay. It's, and so you're replacing, okay. I'm replacing, it has made a huge difference in just the relaxation I feel before I go to sleep. It's insane for, and I really, I only have. The mental stamina to stay up for maybe 15 minutes. It's not like I'm sitting there reading for hours, but it's just making such a difference and it's been really nice to get back into books. How many books have I read this summer? Only two. It's not like I've been crazy. So what's on your, what's on your nightstand? Right now I'm reading The third summer I turned Pretty book Be and I'm Wa and I'm watching also at the same time, same time. So it's going pretty well because another episode, I only have another episode. Thing comes out today, right? Yeah. There's a new episode and I've just been like reading enough to almost catch myself up to the series. It's like working perfectly and I didn't plan it to be Did they follow along? Yes, and they follow along really well. So it's been interesting to read and then see the show or like vice. Duh. Conrad all day. If you're gonna sit there and tell me anything other than that, get out of here. So I've been wa'cause last night I turned it on'cause I thought it was coming on Tuesday. Yeah, it's Wednesday, but I guess it drops on Wednesday. And I was like, oh, what am I gonna watch tonight? So I just went back and started watching from the beginning. Yeah. Isn't this so good? So good. I know. They always, it's like such a joke and I feel like my reels and TikTok feed are just, everything is, it's just that. It's just everything is that right now. But it's so nostalgic and. The book was actually written when we were like young. Not no wonder we like it so much. Yeah. I feel like it has that relate time feeling. Yeah. It's supposed to be like, I don't know if it's when we were in high school or college. It's around that time. So it's, I think that there's something to be said about why all of the millennials are so invested in this story. It just feels very realistic. Yeah. And I love it. But are you anything other than Team Conrad? Is there another answer? No. Team Conrad, you know the other show? Tell me lies. Oh yes, that's another good one. Tell me Lies is another one. That was in like 2008 that was set back when we were in college. Yes. So I feel like 2007 or 2007. So all of us millennials remember that douche bag from college. I know. We were like, oh, it's so true. I know. It's so true. So I feel like all of these shows, it's also just fun. No wonder. Wonder. That is so much. But like summer I turn pretty, doesn't really do a lot of the nostalgic. Like they have it set in this time. It set in this time. Curious but yes. Tell me lies. Oh my God. Me and my girlfriends are obsessed with that show too.'cause that's like. If you look, it's like I could do a full podcast. Podcast. You I had podcast. That outfit I went to that party, I did all those things. The low rise jeans. Oh, so good. The DIY costumes. Yeah. I was at that Fred house for sure, but I, yes. Getting back into, anyways, I digress. Sorry. Getting back into tv. You're not just watching tv. Yeah, I'm not just watching TV and I'm not just scrolling my phone. It's been really helping. I got myself like a little nightlight too, like a little bedside one. The one night clicks on your book. Yeah, because I was like, then I can at least read and I don't have to be like, bothering my husband. But it's just been really nice. Good for you. And so I'm gonna try to get back into my Kindle. I've been reading like, real books. I've had, I had two books that I actually physically had. But I'm gonna get back into my Kindle too and like really try to make this a habit because I just feel good for you mentally. It's great. It. And if you guys have any love book recommendations, I love, I'm like, so behind on the Times, I had just read what's the one with Blake Lively? That whole drama, it ends with us. That it ends with us. I just got through that. Oh, wow. And I'm like five years late to it. But I, I just haven't been in that space to be able to read. I have a cute view you can take. I like to read. Yeah, I know. So what is yours this week? Mine's a thing. Okay. And I'm wearing them, I'm doing a show and talent shoes. Oh my goodness. I'm obsessed. Oh, fun. I copied my sister-in-law. Where are those from? These are from Amazon. I was gonna say, if they're another target find, you're gonna be, look at how cute these are. Oh, those are adorable. So they are like inspired by the Gucci shoes. They look a little Gucci. Mm-hmm. But they're not though. Because Guc, the Gucci shoes have the gold bar here and the chunky heel. But I like these because they're a sandal you have been on, they only have on fire teensy little heel. So you can wear these like a sandal. But they also can be a heel. Can we collectively go back to never wearing a stiletto again? Like I, I literally hope we never like a So Kate. Yes. I hope because I'm just loving all of these like small heels. Yeah. They're really cute. It also makes it so easy to wear pants with them with, if you're all having the same height of heel, it makes. Having a pair of jeans so much easier because then you don't have to worry about oh, one outfit a day. Yeah. If you have a cute shoe that can be worn every day. Yeah. You know when you're like, oh, I have my jeans that are go with flats and I have my jeans that go with heels. Yes. And like it's just easy that everything is the same level right now. Yeah. So these are cute. I'll link them because they have so cute Every single color love. And I really like them a lot. I love it so much. I think they were 24 99. I love it. You have been the queen of finding like good look for less this summer. These, I copied from Gina. I can't take you. I feel like everything is inspired by like somebody else. I, and I'll just tell you who inspired me'cause I didn't up with it myself. That's the way to go, taking bits of pieces. I'll give everybody the credit and hopefully that's what everybody's doing. Listening in. Hopefully you're taking some tips that we're sharing and Yes. Our pink spotlights and applying them to your daily life too. So this week we gave you our take on female friendships and where we're just sitting with them. Yep. And maybe we'll dive into another topic. During another day. Yeah. And we would about, because we didn't really talk about like conflict. Yeah. Because that's another, maybe we'll talk about conflict with female friendships. Yeah. And if there's anything else, have friends that don't get along or when you're really just not getting along. Wow. I know there's so many things we can talk about with female friendships, so if there's anything in particular, we literally get so many of our episode ideas from you guys. Yeah. And then don't forget to re review and subscribe to us if you haven't already. You can click those five stars if you're loving listening along. Thank you for all the reviews. They've been piling up and it's Yes. You've been getting so many good reviews because the more reviews and we have on there Yep. The more visibility the podcast gets. Yes. Oh, we appreciate it. And the more other people can find it, we love you guys and we will see you next week. Have a good weekend. Bye.